View Poll Results: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

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  • Yes

    17 60.71%
  • No

    4 14.29%
  • Maybe, see my points below

    4 14.29%
  • Who cares option

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Thread: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

  1. #71
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Since you are ignorant of how Congressional districts are sized, here is a nice chart of all the New York Congressional Districts and their population and variance from the target (717,707).

    Center for Urban Research - 2010 Census population for NYS legislative districts and Congress

    The 23-NY which I think anyone would consider to be rural has 664,245. The 15-NY which on Manhattan has 639,673.

    Pick another state and I'll show you are wrong there too.
    I said counties, not congressional districts. I shouldn't have assumed that merely because they are usually conflated, that they always are. Presidential elections are usually divied up by county, and a straight 1 to 1 conversion from congressional districts to electoral votes wouldn't work since each state has 2 extra votes.

    The point that anything besides a straight popular vote is attempting to make some votes count more than others still stands.
    Last edited by Paschendale; 01-23-13 at 03:53 PM.
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Look, the Republicans have figured out that they can't win an election for President with the current electoral college setup. They also understand that they can't win an election based on popular votes. So they're cherry picking states that they could change the laws in to win.

    Welcome to the zany world of republican political thought.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Due to inefficient methods of farming comparative to what we have now. They have had large urban areas for thousands of years. Those urban areas were the center of their civilization just as in the Western world it's Athen, Rome, Paris, London etc that were the center of Western civilization. There's nothing about urbanization that leads to civilization decay. It's the opposite.
    Again, those cities prospered because they were supported by a large rural sector. China is still largely rural.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well I disagree they have more time on their hands....when the majority of individuals were farming in rural areas the majority of individuals in industrial town were pulling 14 hour + shifts.
    I would argue farmers did as well and continue to, where the city dwellers, not so much anymore. But hey, that was mostly tongue in cheek. Moral decay happens in all established societies.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...I'll give you that but it's not incorrect. Do you honestly think that people eat more if their grouped together? That food output would have to be less if people lived in rural areas? In fact I'd argue the opposite, people would need more calories to farm their own food.
    No, I think people eat more when there's an abundance. If the abundance is artificial, and they're borrowing from the future to have the abundance today, I believe that's a problem. Food out put wouldn't change if more folks lived in rural areas - as long as there were more rural areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...and what was the impact on a much more rural nation? It doesn't matter where anybody lives. If the midwest dustbowl situation occures it will have a huge impact.
    In a exclusively rural system the food production would be distributed across the population and without the need to over-produce to keep the cities alive and well, farming methods, long known, could be employed to prevent the recurrence of dust bowl conditions.

    For instance, contour farming is a good moisture lock, but it yields less in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Can you build a computer from scratch? Can you build a care from scratch? Do you know how build a house from scratch? Specialization is one of the key componants of a modernizing economy. Sure everybody can do their own thing ranchers/farmers and they would have a better chance of surviving some global catosrophe but the country/economy would be drastically different. Urbanization is the result of changing economic factors.
    The answer to your first questions is yes, with the exception of this, "Can you build a care from scratch", not sure what that is. But I don't have to of course, because of specialization. However, if the specialists all die off, I'll still know how to build it myself.

    I understand the necessity in human society for the city, the urban environment. It makes folks feel safe all huddled together like that. And makes distribution and trade easier, more profitable. What I'm trying to say is that, in order for that urban environment to continue, a larger rural sector must be maintained to support it. Shrink that rural sector too much and eventually the urban environment will fail. There's a balance that needs to be maintained.

  4. #74
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Look, the Republicans have figured out that they can't win an election for President with the current electoral college setup. They also understand that they can't win an election based on popular votes. So they're cherry picking states that they could change the laws in to win.

    Welcome to the zany world of republican political thought.
    The President has NEVER been elected by popular vote. And republicans win elections based upon the popular vote all the time. Most of the statehouses, where the popular vote is king, are republican majority.

  5. #75
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Look, the Republicans have figured out that they can't win an election for President with the current electoral college setup. They also understand that they can't win an election based on popular votes. So they're cherry picking states that they could change the laws in to win.

    Welcome to the zany world of republican political thought.
    That's probably not true. They just won a popular vote presidential election in 2004, and won the 2010 popular vote by a relatively wide margin. There's no reason they cannot adjust themselves and win presidential elections in the future, just as the two parties have for the last 140 years.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  6. #76
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I said counties, not congressional districts. I shouldn't have assumed that merely because they are usually conflated, that they always are. Presidential elections are usually divied up by county, and a straight 1 to 1 conversion from congressional districts to electoral votes wouldn't work since each state has 2 extra votes.

    The point that anything besides a straight popular vote is attempting to make some votes count more than others still stands.
    I'm not really sure what you mean. What exactly does it mean that Presidential elections are divided by county? County has nothing to do with it, other than perhaps the administration of the polling place staff is administered by that level. If you are referring to the USA Today map by county, that is just for their own convenience to draw maps at that level, they could have done ZIP Code or any other Census segment.

    Today, Presidential elections are about electoral votes. You may want it to change, but it isn't. My Congressperson and your Congressperson have the same number of votes and the number of people they represent are reasonably similar.

    If it were about counties, then 1 county=1 vote would be as you describe--votes counting different amounts. Based on congressional districts, the urban/rural distinction is meaningless.

  7. #77
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Actaually Maine and Nebraska already do this. I would prefer it actually with a twist. Take a look at how Iowa does their redistricting. It quite inovative and very fair and quite frankly ought to be the model that should be followed by all the states.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...2zxthH5Lg40ErQ

    If my state of California redistricted like Iowa does then I would be just fine with allocating elctorial votes according to district and award the overall winner the two congresional electorial votes. In fact I would prefer the system.
    I actually like this idea. Find a way to redistrict in a more equitable manner rather than one clearly politically tainted, award the majority of electoral votes via each individual district, and allow the two additional ones to go to the over all winner thus making winning the state still a useful thing.

  8. #78
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    That's probably not true. They just won a popular vote presidential election in 2004, and won the 2010 popular vote by a relatively wide margin. There's no reason they cannot adjust themselves and win presidential elections in the future, just as the two parties have for the last 140 years.
    They have lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections. They are now a regional party of the South and the midwest. Can they win in off years when the voter turnout is low? Sure, in some areas. But we don't elect Presidents in off years.
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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The President has NEVER been elected by popular vote. And republicans win elections based upon the popular vote all the time. Most of the statehouses, where the popular vote is king, are republican majority.
    Maybe if I put it in all CAPS, people will understand. THE REPUBLICANS CANNOT WIN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WITH THE CURRENT RULES IN PLACE. And the demographics are only going to get worse for them. The solution? Split the electoral votes in the blue states and keep those solid red states the same.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: Are the Republicans trying to rig a presidential election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    They have lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections. They are now a regional party of the South and the midwest. Can they win in off years when the voter turnout is low? Sure, in some areas. But we don't elect Presidents in off years.
    1860-1880: Democrats lost the popular vote in 5 of 6 elections.
    1932-1948: Republicans lost popular vote in all 5 elections.
    1968-1988: Democrats lost popular vote in 5 of 6 elections, including 4 heavy landslides.

    And yet here both parties are, still legitimately competitive year in and year out.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

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