View Poll Results: Do we need anti-discrimination laws?

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Thread: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

  1. #61
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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, it is. Just because someone is black doesn't mean I can't tell them no if they desire to use my property.
    You are sort of right but sort of wrong. If you are offering your property for rent, it would be illegal to refuse to rent to them because they are black; or if you were a place of public accommodation (restaurants, hotels, etc) you cannot refuse them business legally because they are black, but if you want to refuse to allow any black people to step onto your property otherwise outside a work/business setting, you are generally ok if you for instance, did not allow blacks onto the property where your home is or your other property. You'd be an ass, but it is situational.

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    You are sort of right but sort of wrong. If you are offering your property for rent, it would be illegal to refuse to rent to them because they are black; or if you were a place of public accommodation (restaurants, hotels, etc) you cannot refuse them business legally because they are black, but if you want to refuse to allow any black people to step onto your property otherwise outside a work/business setting, you are generally ok if you for instance, did not allow blacks onto the property where your home is or your other property. You'd be an ass, but it is situational.
    I was talking about how property rights work, not so much current law and its many violations, but thanks.

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So this right to not be discriminated against you admit is a positive right? Do you realize that makes it violation of rights to begin with? Nothing like a bit of coercion in our right declarations.
    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    So you do believe we have the right to compel others to sell us a cheeseburger. Sorry, but no such right exists.

    Absolutely ridiculous behavior on your part. Shame on you.
    Sorry, but The Civil Rights Act says it's against the law. If my opinion, that of SCOTUS, and the majority of people in this country is ridiculous? I'll gladly take that label. Bigotry and racism comes in many forms. Yours is but one.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Can someone offer some legal definitions for Affirmative Action and Equal Opportunity? I think many people have different views of what they mean and we end up debating each other based on incorrect notions. To be honest, I don't know the real definitions myself.

    I for one don't think a less qualified minority should be hired and/or promoted by force of law over a more qualified people of the majority. I also question it when very large employers have nearly all of their key people made up almost exclusively of non-minorities and just males. At the same time I also realize there are various forms of favoritism in various work places where decision makers voluntarily hire, promote and give raises to the less qualified person. Sometimes less qualified friends are hired and promoted over more qualified applicants who might be of a different race. Sometimes less qualified female employees who are in office romances with decision makers are hired, promoted and given raises over the more qualified person who might be a minority male. What then is the recourse and should there be other than if you don't like it, find another job?
    Broadly speaking, Equal Opportunity requires that employers make hiring/assignment decisions without considering race/ethnicity/gender/age. Here's a summary from the EEOC's website:

    Prohibited Practices

    By contrast, Affirmative Action would require pretty much the opposite - that employers/educational institutions consider race as a factor (although there are many different types of AA, and no overriding single defiition that I'm aware of). For instance AA in educational contexts probably means that race would be taken into consideration as one of many factors in admissions. This probably doesn't mean that a less qualified black person would be admitted over a more qualified white (or asian) applicant, but it might very well mean that if the two are equally qualified, the black person would get admitted over the white person by virtue of being black. Personally I think AA is stupid (at least as generally construed) but that's basically what it's all about.

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Sorry, but The Civil Rights Act says it's against the law. If my opinion, that of SCOTUS, and the majority of people in this country is ridiculous? I'll gladly take that label. Bigotry and racism comes in many forms. Yours is but one.
    So I'm a bigot because I recognize that control of property is where the power of ownership lies? Interesting.

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I get that government intrusion because the restaurant selling the burgers is a public place. What I don't get is the intrusion you mention on private property sales. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it one bit that folks will refuse others solely based upon the color of their skin or whom they're married with. But I also don't like government intrusion on private property.

    If you've got a bit of land you should be able to sell it to who you wish, and that includes not selling it to someone for whatever your reason. The government doesn't constitutionally and shouldn't, have that reach.
    We are a better nation for The Civil Rights Act. It's a shame that people have to be forced to do the right thing. But such is life.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So I'm a bigot because I recognize that control of property is where the power of ownership lies? Interesting.
    No, it's bigotry and racism that's gotten us The Civil Rights Act, plain and simple. You have the right to own your property. You have the right to sell it at whatever price you set. But, if you set that price and then refuse to sell it to someone who offers you full price for it? You have violated a contract....whether that person is black or white, Asian or Indian. If "the buyer" can prove you didn't accept his offer because of his race? You've got a lot of 'splainin' to do.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A business open to the public is still private property.
    The business license issued buy the state, local governments is a contract. To maintain said license they must obey the laws as set down by the state including discrimination laws. If they don't like it, they can go someplace else to do business.

    The contract trumps private property in this case.
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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So I'm a bigot because I recognize that control of property is where the power of ownership lies? Interesting.
    You are a bigot if you set a price on your property and then refuse to sell it at full price to someone because of their race.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Would businesses discriminate today? Are laws against discrimination necessary?[W:83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    The business license issued buy the state is a contract. To maintain said license they must obey the laws as set down by the state including discrimination laws. If they don't like it, they can go someplace else to do business.

    The contract trumps private property in this case.
    Yes, because provisions in contracts can't violate rights. Try harder.

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