View Poll Results: Are you a libertarian if you support this?

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Thread: Are you a libertarian if...

  1. #1
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    Are you a libertarian if...

    Are you [still] a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    Last edited by waas; 01-21-13 at 02:28 PM.

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    As long as that power isn't protected by the government, then yes. In most cases today you'll find big business is using the government as their muscle to protect their power. In a truly free market, an employee makes a voluntary contract with an employer, and no work will take place until both parties are happy with the terms of the deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    How silly.

    I am a business owner, and I exert power by very nature of my owning the business. That doesn't mean I am a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination.

    Of course, neither does it mean I don't pay a few of them more than I make, myself, but that is quite another story.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    I will offer a side-observation. Thomas Jefferson had argued that if you do not have economic independence, you do not have political independence, as it was argued that your employer could coerce you to vote for the man they so choose. Now, in his era there were public ballots, so it was an entirely different era...but the question is still somewhat interesting.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    Gonna have to be a little more specific...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Gonna have to be a little more specific...
    Waas and I had been talking about it in another thread, so he made this thread and the question intentionally ambiguous because he wanted to try to catch me in a logical contradiction, which so far hasn't worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    As long as that power isn't protected by the government, then yes. In most cases today you'll find big business is using the government as their muscle to protect their power. In a truly free market, an employee makes a voluntary contract with an employer, and no work will take place until both parties are happy with the terms of the deal.
    I see, so as long as it's not the government infringing upon liberty, you're okay with it.

    And a market like the one you describes does not exist. In reality, competition for jobs exists, and due to the need to sustain yourself, workers will take any position that helps them earns them a salary.

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    I see, so as long as it's not the government infringing upon liberty, you're okay with it.

    And a market like the one you describes does not exist. In reality, competition for jobs exists, and due to the need to sustain yourself, workers will take any position that helps them earns them a salary.
    A company without the power of government coercion can not infringe on liberty. People have a right to enter into voluntary contracts for work. How can one voluntarily have one's rights infringed?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    A company without the power of government coercion can not infringe on liberty. People have a right to enter into voluntary contracts for work. How can one voluntarily have one's rights infringed?
    I'm sorry, but that's a rather narrow definition of freedom. Just because I voluntarily sign an employment contract, it is not an indication that I possess liberty or that I am free in a broader sense of the word. It may simply be an indication that I chose the best option out of a menu of horrible options.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm sorry, but that's a rather narrow definition of freedom. Just because I voluntarily sign an employment contract, it is not an indication that I possess liberty or that I am free in a broader sense of the word. It may simply be an indication that I chose the best option out of a menu of horrible options.
    And it would be, say, Kinkos' fault that you had a menu of horrible options? Were they not the ones who provided you better options than your other choices?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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