View Poll Results: Are you a libertarian if you support this?

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Thread: Are you a libertarian if...

  1. #71
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The role of government isn't to "solve problems," it is to protect essential liberty. Failed businesses and other such problems are a private matter, not a public one. As Goshin amply demonstrates in the above post, republicans haven't got the stomach for liberty.

    Guy, if you're looking for a dyed-in-the-wool Republican to bait, I hate to tell you: you got the wrong man.

    So how about you go bother someone else...

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  2. #72
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Guy, if you're looking for a dyed-in-the-wool Republican to bait, I hate to tell you: you got the wrong man.

    So how about you go bother someone else...
    Whatever you call yourself does not matter, you are espousing authoritarian principles. I am calling it as I see it, and advocating that the government step in to protect failed businesses is fascism. If you consider an honest and accurate assessment of your political beliefs to be "bait" then I got news for you, the problem ain't me for telling the truth. The problem is your authoritarian beliefs that are antithetical to liberty.

  3. #73
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    If food is located at the bottom of a cliff, and I am starving to death, is it a voluntary act to climb down to the food?


    I would argue no. I would argue that someone TRULY starving to death, has that choice made for them, biologically.

    That is the essence of what is being debated here.

    So, question to the OP...

    Are the average workers in the US starving to death, or dieing of thirst...or even in any DANGER of doing so, sans a job?

    And my answer to that is a resounding no. There are very very very few people in this country in danger of dying as a result of unemployment. You could call them the .001%, even.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  4. #74
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The role of government isn't to "solve problems," it is to protect essential liberty. Failed businesses and other such problems are a private matter, not a public one. As Goshin amply demonstrates in the above post, republicans haven't got the stomach for liberty.
    Actually, when a failed business impacts the public - it becomes a public matter inherently. Businesses, despite what libertarians would like to pretend, do not exist in vacuum. Sometimes, their irresponsible behavior screws everybody else and then it becomes society's business and since government is supposed to act on behalf of the people - the people can elect politicians who will develop policies to do just that.

  5. #75
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There are problems though. Not everyone is suited for a desk job or something requiring a 4 yr degree. A good many people just aren't academically inclined, and a fair-sized minority just flat-out don't have what it takes to get a degree or perform intellectual labor, no matter how hard they work at it.

    There should still be room for blue-collar workers to make a living in America without ending up in a rusty single-wide trailer with no electricity.
    On the flip side of that coin, there are a great deal of folks not suited to blue collar labor, either, if we can even still call it that. I've fired a good deal of folks that can't stand the idea of actually working.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  6. #76
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Actually, when a failed business impacts the public - it becomes a public matter inherently. Businesses, despite what libertarians would like to pretend, do not exist in vacuum. Sometimes, their irresponsible behavior screws everybody else and then it becomes society's business and since government is supposed to act on behalf of the people - the people can elect politicians who will develop policies to do just that.
    You are wrong, libertarians do not think businesses exist in a vacuum. This is a straw man. Libertarians think that the taxpayer should not bear the burden of a failed business. Big difference.

    As for the rest ofyour argument, it is a very succinct synopsis of the authoritarian position. Well done. I'm sure the other supporters of fascist policies like waas and Goshin agree with you. Those of us who care about essential God-given liberty remain unpersuaded by your trite authoritarian bromides.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 01-21-13 at 07:09 PM.

  7. #77
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You are wrong, libertarians do not think businesses exist in a vacuum. This is a straw man. Libertarians think that the taxpayer should not bear the burden of a failed business. Big difference.
    Actually, when you say that a failed business is a "private matter" not a "public matter" without qualifying it, you are saying the business exists in a vacuum.

    As for the rest of your argument, it is a very succinct synopsis of the authoritarian position. We done. I'm sure the other supporters of fascist policies like waas and Goshin agree with you. Those of us who care about essential god-giveniberty remain unpersuaded by your nonsensical authoritarian bromides.
    Are you capable of speaking without hyperbole? For Christ's sake.

  8. #78
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Funny, that's exactly where I part ways with all you crypto-fascist republicans. You guys talk a good game about liberty but in the same breath you'll unashamedly promote authoritarian policies, apparent with no sense of irony. You guys are perfectly cool with infringing on essential liberty and god-given rights as long as it suits your own personal prejudices. Disgusting.
    There are no such things as god given rights, only those rights OTHERS ALLOW YOU TO HAVE, or are unable to remove from you. If I show up to your door tonight wit a pistol, knock you out, tie you up, and keep you in my basement, what sort of explanation would you offer me about your god given rights? Nothing convincing enough that I would let you go, I'll confidently say. Food for thought.

    And so, in order to prevent that very thing, and to grant you a reprieve from the constant vigilance it would take on your part to do so WITHOUT preventative authoritarian measures in place, society...that is, a group of people living together in relative harmony...surrenders agreed upon amounts of freedom, in order to to maintain a higher standard of living.

    Without cops, Guy, the moment you went to work, someone else would to get work taking what's yours. In almost all areas of your life.

    Without a military, this would happen on a more continental scale.

    Without the rule of law, there can be no society.

    Without authoritarianism, there can be no rule of law.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  9. #79
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Actually, when you say that a failed business is a "private matter" not a "public matter" without qualifying it, you are saying the business exists in a vacuum.
    No I didn't. You are just repeating your vapid straw man caricature of libertarians. the word "public" refers to the matter being the proper domain of government, which a failed business is not.

    Are you capable of speaking without hyperbole? For Christ's sake.
    Nothing hyperbolic there, that is all very literal. Don't like being called a fascistic authoritarian? Don't be one.

  10. #80
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I get your point... but I live in the South. When I was born, most people worked in factories and made a decent living doing it. Today, most of those factories are closed, and most of the people that worked in them are working lower-paying service jobs. Yes, we've managed to attract SOME factories from other parts of the country, because our state has less regs and taxes than many and no legal status for unions, but it hasn't made up the shortfall by a long shot. I'm not speaking theoretically... I'm talking about people I know, including family and neighbors.

    It may "solve" some problems, but it also creates others.

    Construction... well we have lots of that but it has mostly been taken over by illegals working for peanuts, a concrete mason that made $20 an hour in the 80s is lucky if he can find a job literally for anything more than minimum wage today. Again, I'm talking about people I know personally.

    I've seen so many businesses close their doors and NOT reopen at all, not even under another owner, in the past decade... it worries me.
    And are the houses cheaper as a result? And if not, who is to blame for that?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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