View Poll Results: Are you a libertarian if you support this?

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  • Yes

    17 56.67%
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    13 43.33%
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Thread: Are you a libertarian if...

  1. #21
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    Fisher's Avatar
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Interesting. To you, the exploitation of workers and the widening of the gap between rich and poor is fine, provided the label slavery is absent.
    No that is your one-sided world view speaking, not me. If the government forced you to spend money at my business whether your needed the goods or services or not, then equity would dictate that the government would have greater say in how I do business as part of that exchange. If you are not forced to do business with me, then it is none of your business what my relationship with my employees are. I haven't had anybody jump on the underground railroad and they still give me something for Massa's Day, so my down-trodden slaves must be content.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    No that is your one-sided world view speaking, not me. If the government forced you to spend money at my business whether your needed the goods or services or not, then equity would dictate that the government would have greater say in how I do business as part of that exchange. If you are not forced to do business with me, then it is none of your business what my relationship with my employees are. I haven't had anybody jump on the underground railroad and they still give me something for Massa's Day, so my down-trodden slaves must be content.
    How sad. You really think I'm addressing your business specifically.

    The government not intervening in certain practices opens the door for abuse, something our country has a long history of. I'm not saying it happens at your place of business specifically, but using yourself to characterize the country as a whole is ridiculous.

  3. #23
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Did I ever say that? First, you're only barely touching upon the quoted post. I believe that economic problems stem from the divide between the creators of wealth and the upper class.
    Seems like a bigger problem is that you can't differentiate between those who create goods and those who create wealth.

    Guess which one is easier to do...which is directly related to their relative value to society and scarcity.

  4. #24
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    How sad. You really think I'm addressing your business specifically.

    The government not intervening in certain practices opens the door for abuse, something our country has a long history of. I'm not saying it happens at your place of business specifically, but using yourself to characterize the country as a whole is ridiculous.
    Why not if you are criticizing me specifically? "Exploitation of labor" is what a job is. The widening gap between the rich and the poor may have to do with the welfare system trapping poor people, not lifting them up, and data-point liberalism avoids that the gap is largely stock performance, financial markets, and foreign investments that driving it, not the productivity of hourly domestic work. If you look at it over time, the high end mirrors the financial markets, but the low end is unaffected by the swings in financial markets.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Seems like a bigger problem is that you can't differentiate between those who create goods and those who create wealth.

    Guess which one is easier to do...which is directly related to their relative value to society and scarcity.
    You think creating a business is the same thing as creating wealth? Are you denying that it's the workers who maintain it through labor? Labor sustains the economy, not intellectual property.

  6. #26
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you [still] a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    If you were not forced or coerced into taking said employment, then yes, libertarianism is compatible with employers exerting power over employees.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  7. #27
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    You think creating a business is the same thing as creating wealth?
    In many ways it is.

    Are you denying that it's the workers who maintain it through labor? Labor sustains the economy, not intellectual property.
    Labor sustains a weak economy. They do this because of a shortage in intellectual capital.

    When unskilled workers are not a dime a dozen, then we can argue about their merit.

  8. #28
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you [still] a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    Of course. In fact, you are NOT a libertarian UNLESS you support that.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Why not if you are criticizing me specifically? "Exploitation of labor" is what a job is. The widening gap between the rich and the poor may have to do with the welfare system trapping poor people, not lifting them up, and data-point liberalism avoids that the gap is largely stock performance, financial markets, and foreign investments that driving it, not the productivity of hourly domestic work. If you look at it over time, the high end mirrors the financial markets, but the low end is unaffected by the swings in financial markets.
    Excuse me for saying this, but you're a moron.

    Yes, the low end has increased very little(though it has varied with the markets) but the high end has grown in leaps and bounds.

    And the welfare program is poorly done, but it's still something we need - I'd much rather implement a version of the CCCs. In no way does a system that helps keep the poor alive responsible for their poverty - people on welfare live in depressing conditions, which is incentive for advancement in it's own right.

  10. #30
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Of course. In fact, you are NOT a libertarian UNLESS you support that.
    Not true at all. Liberty and exploitation are mutually exclusive.

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