View Poll Results: Are you a libertarian if you support this?

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  • Yes

    17 56.67%
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    13 43.33%
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Thread: Are you a libertarian if...

  1. #11
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Sure, the employees have the liberty to walk away.

  2. #12
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    A company without the power of government coercion can not infringe on liberty. People have a right to enter into voluntary contracts for work. How can one voluntarily have one's rights infringed?
    Are you simply illiterate? I explained to you that the need to generate income forces an employee to choose between unsavory employment options. And before you go on the expected tangent: No, when there're plenty of workers available, employers won't be forced to raise their offered wages to compete; inversely, employers with high offered wages will lower them to compete with institutions paying less.

  3. #13
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Sure, the employees have the liberty to walk away.
    And what happens if they walk away? Starve, or find another job.

  4. #14
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you simply illiterate? I explained to you that the need to generate income forces an employee to choose between unsavory employment options. And before you go on the expected tangent: No, when there're plenty of workers available, employers won't be forced to raise their offered wages to compete; inversely, employers with high offered wages will lower them to compete with institutions paying less.
    Oh, I'm plenty literate, I just don't buy into the bull**** that you're pushing. Any individual company isn't responsible for the macroeconomic health of our country. I would say the government is far more responsible for the situation we're in. I know that you know big business and our politicians are in bed with each other. Your solution however is to give these horribly corrupt politicians MORE power.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Name any government in history where the leaders have had excessive power, and you'll find a pretty ****ty situation. We need to destroy the relationship our politicians have with business. It's a disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    And what happens if they walk away? Starve, or find another job.
    So in your mind, the poverty and massive unemployment in our country stems from Kinkos, or Mom and Pop's Printing Shop and not other factors?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  5. #15
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    And what happens if they walk away? Starve, or find another job.
    Not the problem of the business owner just so long as someone takes their place. Shocking that nobody is entitled to me hiring them or keeping them isn't it? Bring back slavery or indentured servitude and you would have a moral argument, otherwise, your worker's wants do not exceed my needs.

  6. #16
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you [still] a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    Isn't the freedom advocated by libertarianism defined in relation to government?

    I suppose one would still be a libertarian in the literal sense if they support businesses exerting power of employees, but depending on the extent of the power exerted, one would betray certain principles of libertarianism, namely that man should be as free from coercion as possible.

  7. #17
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Are you [still] a libertarian if you support business owners being able to exert power over employees?
    Not if the business owner tries to electrocute someone.

  8. #18
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm sorry, but that's a rather narrow definition of freedom. Just because I voluntarily sign an employment contract, it is not an indication that I possess liberty or that I am free in a broader sense of the word. It may simply be an indication that I chose the best option out of a menu of horrible options.
    I seriously hate that justification, because it's indicative of Marxists and pseudo-communists trying to argue about the concept of "wage slavery", saying that "well, work or die isn't much of a choice, is it?".

    Choice is just that - choice. Not every situation needs to have a "winner". Your best option is to maximize good, but also to minimize bad. That's just simple utility function.

    Job offers position. You accept or you don't. It's pretty much black and white.

    It's more of an option in that measure than any job that is unionized, because unions strip away choice like nothing else in business can.

  9. #19
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Oh, I'm plenty literate, I just don't buy into the bull**** that you're pushing. Any individual company isn't responsible for the macroeconomic health of our country. I would say the government is far more responsible for the situation we're in. I know that you know big business and our politicians are in bed with each other. Your solution however is to give these horribly corrupt politicians MORE power.
    You don't buy into my "bull****"? Is that why you address not one of my points? In any case, I know our politicians are "in bed" with corporations, which is why I'm a argue for campaign finance reform and restrictions geared at lessening the influence unaccountable entities have on politics and society.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Name any government in history where the leaders have had excessive power, and you'll find a pretty ****ty situation. We need to destroy the relationship our politicians have with business. It's a disease.
    Where do you get nationalist from our conversations? Go to my profile and read what I've written under the bio category, or, perhaps, my posts.

    So in your mind, the poverty and massive unemployment in our country stems from Kinkos, or Mom and Pop's Printing Shop and not other factors?
    Did I ever say that? First, you're only barely touching upon the quoted post. I believe that economic problems stem from the divide between the creators of wealth and the upper class.
    Last edited by waas; 01-21-13 at 04:12 PM.

  10. #20
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    Re: Are you a libertarian if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Not the problem of the business owner just so long as someone takes their place. Shocking that nobody is entitled to me hiring them or keeping them isn't it? Bring back slavery or indentured servitude and you would have a moral argument, otherwise, your worker's wants do not exceed my needs.
    Interesting. To you, the exploitation of workers and the widening of the gap between rich and poor is fine, provided the label slavery is absent.

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