View Poll Results: Would this compromise be acceptable?

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  • Yes. This isnít perfect, but no compromise is.

    12 12.90%
  • No. I donít mind some compromise, but this still takes away too much.

    13 13.98%
  • No. We should never compromise our gun rights.

    61 65.59%
  • No. This still gives too many gun ownership privileges.

    4 4.30%
  • I can hit a target 400 yards away with my eyes closed.

    3 3.23%
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Thread: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

  1. #471
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    don't have a specific magic number and I doubt the Court does either.
    which of course is the plan. first they limit it to 20 rounds than to 10 than to 7 and then to 5 and then to two and then its easy to ban them all

    the only thing that makes rational sense is limiting most citizens to the same stuff civilian LEOs are issued

    anything else violates the concept of estoppel

  2. #472
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    I have already stated in a poll I started that any limit is an infringement.

    Haymarket, do you have an opinion what would be an infringement?

  3. #473
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    which of course is the plan. first they limit it to 20 rounds than to 10 than to 7 and then to 5 and then to two and then its easy to ban them all

    the only thing that makes rational sense is limiting most citizens to the same stuff civilian LEOs are issued

    anything else violates the concept of estoppel
    I believe this is what is known as the employment of the fear of the Slippery Slope. It permits one to ignore a somewhat minor and even reasonable proposition in favor of instead arguing against an extreme one of their own creation and invention.

    The use of such a tactic violates basic intellectual integrity and substitutes a phony issue for a real one.
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  4. #474
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have already stated in a poll I started that any limit is an infringement.

    Haymarket, do you have an opinion what would be an infringement?
    You have asked this several times this evening and I gave you a clear answer each and every time. My mind does not change with the repositioning of the hour hand on the clock.

    If the government adopted policies which denied citizens the right to keep and bear arms, then the Second Amendment would have been INFRINGED.
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  5. #475
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I believe this is what is known as the employment of the fear of the Slippery Slope. It permits one to ignore a somewhat minor and even reasonable proposition in favor of instead arguing against an extreme one of their own creation and invention.

    The use of such a tactic violates basic intellectual integrity and substitutes a phony issue for a real one.
    incrementalists never admit that a next step is coming. to do so would destroy their arguments.

    do you recall what Cuomo said when people claimed that a ten round limit was a stepping stone to more limits?

  6. #476
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have asked this several times this evening and I gave you a clear answer each and every time. My mind does not change with the repositioning of the hour hand on the clock.

    If the government adopted policies which denied citizens the right to keep and bear arms, then the Second Amendment would have been INFRINGED.
    Uh that is not an answer. I asked you if you believe at what number is there an infringement.

  7. #477
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    incrementalists never admit that a next step is coming. to do so would destroy their arguments.

    do you recall what Cuomo said when people claimed that a ten round limit was a stepping stone to more limits?
    Which hardly justifies usage of the Slippery Slope fallacy and refusal to engage in actually debating the issue at hand. It merely is convenient and imaginative justification for intellectual dishonesty as a debate tactic.

    It appears that what is at the core of NRA supporters fear is indeed a type of extreme fear that has crossed over into dangerous paranoia fueled by extremist right wing politics brought on through a self imposed belief system completely detached from the reality of the America that we live in. As such, one can only hope to discuss this issue with the majority of Americans in the middle and pay no attention to the five million NRA sycophants who do not live in the same America that the rest of us do.
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  8. #478
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Uh that is not an answer. I asked you if you believe at what number is there an infringement.
    Sorry - I thought you were keeping up with previous positions that were indeed clearly stated. For your benefit, here is what I stated just a bit ago on that very inquiry: I stated earlier this evening that there is no magic number and I believe the Court does not have one either. To pretend that there needs to be at this point is ludicrous and serves no rational purpose other than an attempt to bog down debate in an argument over a silly number. Thus, no reason for us or you to worry about that at this time since this issue is far from being decided with specific details.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #479
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which hardly justifies usage of the Slippery Slope fallacy and refusal to engage in actually debating the issue at hand. It merely is convenient and imaginative justification for intellectual dishonesty as a debate tactic.

    It appears that what is at the core of NRA supporters fear is indeed a type of extreme fear that has crossed over into dangerous paranoia fueled by extremist right wing politics brought on through a self imposed belief system completely detached from the reality of the America that we live in. As such, one can only hope to discuss this issue with the majority of Americans in the middle and pay no attention to the five million NRA sycophants who do not live in the same America that the rest of us do.
    1) the leader of the modern gun hate movement-Nelson "pete" shields clearly set forth that handguns had to be banned incrementally. Given every ban has been achieved incrementally in this country as well as some others (like England and Australia) your attempts to support the creeping crud of confiscation by pretending a 10 round ban was not going to result in a 7 round ban etc is not really valid

    2) you see people like Cuomo and his equally dishonest father-supported the ten round limit and claimed that it was not a stepping stone to a 7 round etc limit. and remember-its not like a ten round magazine was the problem that caused Cuomo to engage in such pandering. It was a CONVICTED MURDERER who should have been in prison who plotted the murder of firefighters with a stolen weapon using a 30 round magazine that spurred this idiocy

    being against infringements on the second amendment that are based on pandering, emotion and a desire to punish the NRA for supporting Cuomo and Obama's opponents is hardly right wing extremism

    and why cannot you tell us if there is any limit on magazine capacity that you would find to be a violation

  10. #480
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) the leader of the modern gun hate movement-Nelson "pete" shields clearly set forth that handguns had to be banned incrementally.
    Sorry - never heard of him.

    I did look him up and found out that he has been worm food for nearly twenty years now. As such, he is hardly the modern leader of anything today.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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