View Poll Results: Would this compromise be acceptable?

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  • Yes. This isnít perfect, but no compromise is.

    12 12.90%
  • No. I donít mind some compromise, but this still takes away too much.

    13 13.98%
  • No. We should never compromise our gun rights.

    61 65.59%
  • No. This still gives too many gun ownership privileges.

    4 4.30%
  • I can hit a target 400 yards away with my eyes closed.

    3 3.23%
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Thread: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

  1. #271
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You agree with me. Great.

    My position is based on the actual wording of the SECOND AMENDMENT and what the word INFRINGED meant at the time of its writing. For your right to be infringed the government would have to create a situation where you are denied the right to keep and bear arms. It would have to be denied so as to be destroyed or negated. And telling you that you cannot have one item on a menu when the menu carries much else that you can have is not starving you.
    Government force is elicited to prevent my from exercising the full of my right to keep and bear arms, yes.

    People like you accept "free speech" zones and all sorts of infringements. "Well you can't print dissent against the government, but you can print agreements of the government; thus the right of freedom of press is preserved". It's a rather stupid argument in the end and has no basis in the Constitution, reason, or logic.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #272
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Government force is elicited to prevent my from exercising the full of my right to keep and bear arms, yes.

    People like you accept "free speech" zones and all sorts of infringements. "Well you can't print dissent against the government, but you can print agreements of the government; thus the right of freedom of press is preserved". It's a rather stupid argument in the end and has no basis in the Constitution, reason, or logic.
    There is no such thing as your artificial creation of the fiction FULL EXERCISE. Either you can keep and bear arms or you cannot. Telling you you cannot have an item you want when you can have others to exercise your right is not a denial of your rights.

    It is your argument that has no basis in the Constitution.

    Or is it your position that the Second Amendment gives you the right to have any arm of any type that you want?
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  3. #273
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Justice Scalia has already stated that in his considered opinion, and he is heralded as the intellectual anchor of the 'conservative' wing in the Supreme Court, the 2nd A is not an unlimited right, that might mean a 5-4 opinion for new restrictions.

    Good luck with the 'I get what cops get' effort.

  4. #274
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Or is it your position that the Second Amendment gives you the right to have any arm of any type that you want?
    Ideally any type of arm allowed to the government. If you are uncomfortable with an individual having a particular armament, then government should not have it either.

    Also, I'm creating no fiction. Government force, or outside force in general, is necessary to prevent the exercise of a right. Government force is used to limit one's right to keep and bear arms. There's no bones about it. That's just reality, measured and observed.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #275
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There is plenty that is foolish and shortsighted, abdication of rights of temporary "safety" being amongst them.
    I kind of disagree with all of that. No rights are being abdicated. I think there is just a misunderstanding of the right. Nor do I believe that what little help it gives to safety is temporary. They will be a small effect, and it will be long term.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #276
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am simply attempting to do what I did for 33 years - teach about American government.
    That's a nice story, but I don't believe you. Quite frankly, I don't think you're being honest. I have concluded that you do, in fact, want ordinary citizens prevented from possessing the same firearms as the police and the standing army.

    I have come to this conclusion based upon many encounters with your dissembling, evasions, and your passive aggressive comments about firearms and gun owners. Couple this with the fact that you have never, ever made any statement supportive of the right of the people to possess such weapons. Coupled this with your incessant and dogged constitutional arguments for why the people have no right to own the same firearms as the police and standing army.

    For some unknown reason, you prefer play coy and insist that you have no desire to strip your fellow man of his freedoms. I no longer buy your act. So just know that, unless and until you convince me otherwise, I am operating under the assumption that you are the same as all the other gun-grabbers out there who wish to whittle away at our freedoms until your ultimate goal of complete effective disarming is accomplished.

    I know you will protest and keep up your act, but it's over. It ain't working any more.

  7. #277
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I kind of disagree with all of that. No rights are being abdicated. I think there is just a misunderstanding of the right. Nor do I believe that what little help it gives to safety is temporary. They will be a small effect, and it will be long term.
    There is misunderstanding of the right, but I fear it is not upon my behalf. Limiting the tools of the militia undercuts the militia, and the militia is a necessity to a free state. Will there be an affect? No, not significant, nothing beyond probably 1.5 sigma at best. And yet with these insignificant, perchance imperceptible, "effects" we have those joyously jumping up and down for government force against the free exercise of rights. You will get no safety, all you will do is to enslave yourself further to the government as it isolates itself from the People. This is the natural course of unrestrained government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #278
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Ideally any type of arm allowed to the government. If you are uncomfortable with an individual having a particular armament, then government should not have it either.

    Also, I'm creating no fiction. Government force, or outside force in general, is necessary to prevent the exercise of a right. Government force is used to limit one's right to keep and bear arms. There's no bones about it. That's just reality, measured and observed.
    Police officers and soldiers who work for the government have the weapons they do as tools to do a specific job. You and I and other citizens DO NOT HAVE THOSE JOBS. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    That's a nice story, but I don't believe you. Quite frankly, I don't think you're being honest.
    Whatever self imposed delusions you want to believe in are your own matter. Not mine.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #280
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Police officers and soldiers who work for the government have the weapons they do as tools to do a specific job. You and I and other citizens DO NOT HAVE THOSE JOBS. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
    No, we do not have those jobs. I did not pretend that I did; please abstain from lying. It's just that one has nothing to do with the other. Yes, police are armed as much as government wants to arm them, they have job, blah blah blah. I have a job too, one that is far greater. Protecting and proliferating the freedom and posterity of the Republic. And for that, we require the militia, and because of that the right of the individual to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    You keep wanting to somehow connect police with my rights; but the existence of the police as the armed division of the government set against the People does not alter my rights. So you can stop with that retarded argument.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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