View Poll Results: Would this compromise be acceptable?

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  • Yes. This isnít perfect, but no compromise is.

    12 12.90%
  • No. I donít mind some compromise, but this still takes away too much.

    13 13.98%
  • No. We should never compromise our gun rights.

    61 65.59%
  • No. This still gives too many gun ownership privileges.

    4 4.30%
  • I can hit a target 400 yards away with my eyes closed.

    3 3.23%
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Thread: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

  1. #141
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And thank you for not attempting to deny the possibility that the people may need to form themselves into a militia in the future.
    Nor do I deny the possibility of three inch flaming monkeys playing professional basketball under the surface of Uranus sometime in the future. I will not however formulate current public policy around that sort of speculation.
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Exactly. The right must be destroyed or broken or violate or hindered to the extent that it is destroyed or broken. Just asI have been insisting all along and just like the 1828 Websters agrees with that has been posted here many times.

    and here it is again.... please note that the hinder part is LITTLE USED and thus not nearly as important as the other more definitive descriptions.
    Broken and destroyed are similar, but not the same thing. Infringment doesn't mean something is destroyed. it means its integrity is altered.
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  3. #143
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    My apologies for misunderstanding. So you ARE interested in the subject?
    Again, what is this reference to "the subject"?
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  4. #144
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Broken and destroyed are similar, but not the same thing. Infringment doesn't mean something is destroyed. it means its integrity is altered.
    In this case it means that you no longer can exercise the right.
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  5. #145
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Right, so what's in there then?

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    So you've got to have a high-fibre diet to keep your militia regular, and, of course, your right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Therefore, the founding fathers gave carte blanc to every paranoid-schizophrenic to own and carry anti-personnel mines and SAW's. Now we get to Turtle's point, that that's a wee bit unreasonable, considering we humans have gotten quite efficient at projecting lead. So, therefore, despite the wording, infringement must occur, and Turtle likes to draw his arbitrary line at what police can use. Of course, some want the line arbitrary line in other places, hence all the arguing. But, going by what is there, there is no limitations at all.
    Which is how I read it. And quite frankly to read it ANY other way, including Turtledudes is a complete bastardization rendering the amendment absolutely meaningless. Its one of the reasons I dont support the NRA and think they are a bunch of pussies. All this started with the compromise on free speach. Its either free or its not. That includes yelling fire in a theature. You compromise on one right and then you compromise on all the rest.
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In this case it means that you no longer can exercise the right.
    "Shall not be infringed" implies that the 2nd was not to be altered, broken, destroyed, or otherwise touched. Of course it doesn't keep power-hungry politicians from doing whatever the hell they want, but they've already violated our rights. The problem is, too many people are too ignorant, or don't care (such as yourself) enough to fight to preserve it intact.
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  7. #147
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Exactly. The right must be destroyed or broken or violate or hindered to the extent that it is destroyed or broken. Just asI have been insisting all along and just like the 1828 Websters agrees with that has been posted here many times.
    Where the **** did you get that from?

    The text in the pic reads "To violate, to break laws or contracts, to destroy, to hinder"

    So if the founders had written "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be violated/broken/destroyed/hindered" Other than being grammatically unsound, it would have the same meaning, that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.
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  8. #148
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    "Shall not be infringed" implies that the 2nd was not to be altered, broken, destroyed, or otherwise touched. Of course it doesn't keep power-hungry politicians from doing whatever the hell they want, but they've already violated our rights. The problem is, too many people are too ignorant, or don't care (such as yourself) enough to fight to preserve it intact.
    NO. It does not say that. Those were not the words used. There is nothing incremental about the word INFRINGED. It clearly means that the right must be negated so that you no longer have that right.

    Ask yourself this simple question: if the broader meaning, if the more modern meaning, if the NRA endorsed meaning of INFRINGED is correct and has been correct and it cannot be "otherwise touched" as you put it - why then have we have laws for a very long time on almost every level which did indeed encroach upon, limit, and even outright deny the right to keep an bear arms on some folks in some situations and they have not been overruled by the Supreme Court?

    If your broader and more modern view of the term embracing incremental encroachment was and is correct, nothing in American history supports that. Nothing.
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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Where the **** did you get that from?

    The text in the pic reads "To violate, to break laws or contracts, to destroy, to hinder"

    So if the founders had written "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be violated/broken/destroyed/hindered" Other than being grammatically unsound, it would have the same meaning, that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.
    If you are exercising the right, then by its very nature you cannot have the right violated or broken or destroyed. One cannot have their right INFRINGED if one also is enjoying the same right. One cancels out the other. The existence of one precludes the existence of the other. Its like being pregnant: you either are or are not.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: A proposed compromise on "assault weapons"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again, what is this reference to "the subject"?
    Whether it should be legal for citizens to possess the same firearms that are used by police officers.

    You claim that you don't make a judgement about what weapons people should have, yet you argue incessantly with Turtledude specifically about that topic, telling him that it's absurd to think that an ordinary citizen should be allowed to carry such firearms. I'm sure you can imaging the confusion caused by such mixed signals.
    Last edited by Federalist; 01-15-13 at 05:57 PM.

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