View Poll Results: Should we propose further alcohol control?

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  • Yes

    4 11.76%
  • No

    23 67.65%
  • Other

    7 20.59%
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Thread: Time for Alcohol Control?

  1. #61
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're dodging the question.
    It doesn't matter the "nature" of an item.

    What matters is the effects of the item, being in circulation.
    Both items in circulation, supposedly have negative societal externalities.
    Consumptive alcohol is a contributor in violence, disease and death.

    It only makes sense to lessen it's presence, unless you're willing to accept that we should have the freedom to possess things, regardless of their effects on society at large.
    I am not dodging the question. I cannot go into a school or building and kill 20 innocent people with alcohol.

  2. #62
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Considering all the talk of gun control lately, let's review the facts around alcohol and consider some further restrictions around another "death causer."
    That is alcohol.

    CDC figures on alcohol related deaths.



    FASTSTATS - Alcohol Use



    CDC - Impaired Driving Facts - Motor Vehicle Safety - Injury Center



    WHO | Alcohol

    I propose,

    A background check system, for all alcohol purchases, supported by a fee, probably $25 per purchase.

    A limit to the amount of alcohol containers, that can be purchased per day.

    The limiting of alcohol percentages per volume, probably 5% or less.

    What say you?

    That's some mighty tasty irony you're serving up there... I need to get your recipe.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  3. #63
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    I am not dodging the question. I cannot go into a school or building and kill 20 innocent people with alcohol.

    If you drink and drive and hit a schoolbus you could kill 20 children.


    And I'm fairly sure something like that has happened, probably more than once....

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  4. #64
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    I am not dodging the question. I cannot go into a school or building and kill 20 innocent people with alcohol.
    Google "DUI driver kills."
    The fact of the matter is, that nearly the same amount of people (arguably more) die from alcohol related causes.

    You are dodging it.
    Should we not further regulate alcohol to limit the amount of societal problems it causes?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #65
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If you drink and drive and hit a schoolbus you could kill 20 children.


    And I'm fairly sure something like that has happened, probably more than once....
    Was it an accident or on purpose?

    Do people who shoot up schools do it on accident or on purpose?

  6. #66
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Google "DUI driver kills."
    The fact of the matter is, that nearly the same amount of people (arguably more) die from alcohol related causes.

    You are dodging it.
    Should we not further regulate alcohol to limit the amount of societal problems it causes?
    How many of these alcohol-related deaths were intent to kill?

    My guess is most of these "alcohol-related" deaths are by accident.

  7. #67
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    I would say that alcohol is far safer than open access to guns I don't remember anyone going and shooting up a school because they had ready access to alcohol, alcohol is also not meant to kill people and for the majority of most people it presents no issue, and there are reasons want alcohol, legitimate social reasons. Problems with alcohol can be solved by raising awareness about drinking responsibly whereas firearms are a major concern and the only way to prevent is to limit access to them without a major hassle to any sane person.
    It doesn't matter, if it is meant to do this or that.
    The vast majority of firearms, don't kill anyone.

    Your "legitimate social reasons" are no more valid than, the "legitimate social reasons" for firearm owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDC
    In 2010, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That's one percent of the 112 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.
    CDC - Impaired Driving Facts - Motor Vehicle Safety - Injury Center

    That's a whole lot of people, not being socially responsible with alcohol.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #68
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    How many of these alcohol-related deaths were intent to kill?

    My guess is most of these "alcohol-related" deaths are by accident.
    Is a death more acceptable because it was an accident?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Is a death more acceptable because it was an accident?
    I don't know if "acceptable" is the right word. But, there is surely a difference.

    Killing someone by accident and killing someone in cold blood are miles apart.

  10. #70
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're dodging the question.
    It doesn't matter the "nature" of an item.

    What matters is the effects of the item, being in circulation.
    Both items in circulation, supposedly have negative societal externalities.
    Consumptive alcohol is a contributor in violence, disease and death.

    It only makes sense to lessen it's presence, unless you're willing to accept that we should have the freedom to possess things, regardless of their effects on society at large.
    Just want to preface this by saying I'm pro-second amendment! I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing.

    You can't keep narrowing the criteria by which this debate can take place. Alcohol and guns are comparable in certain ways but not in others. Moderate drinkers as a group are shown to be healthier than non-drinkers. The debate would be more relevant if you were comparing alcohol as a legal substance with other substances that are illegal.

    They tried criminalizing alcohol and it didn't work because anyone can produce it in their home using bread scraps and a simple setup. Also, the government wanted the revenue. If alcohol could be criminalized it probably would be, but the prohibition era didn't pan out. I think it had something to do with the maffia taking over Chicago with their illegal alcohol revenues, and building tunnels into Canada.

    You can't make guns in your home. Guns are used for targetted violence whereas alcohol related deaths tend to be accidental. Weeding out psychopaths and convicts from gun ownership could reduce the gun violence rate, but such controls would not work for alcohol because every day people become intoxicated.

    Most deaths in the U.S. annually are obesity related, like heart disease, stroke, etc. Why aren't we outlawing unhealthy food? There are over 100,000 deaths per year due to accidents, most of them automobile - why aren't we banning cars? Maybe it's because driving is a privilege that can be revoked, just like gun ownership should be?

    Plenty of drunk drivers don't kill anyone, but they are a risk. Most fatalities involving alcohol are accidental, even if there could have been some prevention. There is nothing accidental about a psycho shooting up a school full of children.

    Your argument is flawed at its core because you are comparing accidental death to pre-meditated murder - statistically speaking.

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