View Poll Results: Should we propose further alcohol control?

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  • Yes

    4 11.76%
  • No

    23 67.65%
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Thread: Time for Alcohol Control?

  1. #141
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by BretJ View Post
    Good point. It was also used to make use of surplus grain. I guess that is kind of noble. Hehehehe
    Yes, it probably made your Sasquatch wife a little more tolerable to be with in Pre-Lady Bic era of human civilization to boot.

  2. #142
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Yes, it probably made your Sasquatch wife a little more tolerable to be with in Pre-Lady Bic era of human civilization to boot.
    Aren't they primarily Canadian? My wife is British. I guess it is a part of Great Britain though.
    The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
    " In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
    "But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

  3. #143
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Again, and again, and again, there's a difference between unintentionally killing someone while intoxicated and shooting up a school.
    Again, again and again, I'm not saying they are the same.
    However, if the end result, is the death of an innocent person/people, the individual who helped cause it, should be restricted from purchasing the things that played large part in doing so.


    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    And to be able to own a gun requires more extensive background check because a gun can most definitely cause greater violence, on per case basis, than alcohol.
    Firearm background checks are near instantaneous in most instances, unless there are a lot of purchases during the day.
    If someone is a serial DUI offender, why should they still have ready access to retail alcohol, explain this.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Not to be all semantic, but it really does depend on how you define success. Like with current illegal narcotics, alcohol prohibition promoted a vast profitable underground network, increased the prison population, and as I mentioned earlier the government was actively spiking ethanol with methanol in its shipments to make sure bootleggers suffered steeply. Foremost it put a lot of downward cultural pressure on the USA to conform to an alien concept of not drinking when the surrounding countries and most of the entire world were doing it. Sure it probably stemmed some cirrhosis cases but who cares when freedoms are so curtailed?
    I'm defining success as reducing overall consumption and disease.
    The NY times article described the crime rate, as largely the same, before and after prohibition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The restrictions on driving (like needing a license) come from that very principle. You have to prove you understand the rules of the road and are not an obvious danger to other people before the State will give you permission to drive a vehicle. Your own argument is working against you now. By that logic we should do the same thing with guns because although most people are responsible, we can't trust the common good to prevail and must therefore ensure that people are qualified!
    You can own a car, without a license.
    You can own a firearm, without a license.

    You cannot conceal carry, in the majority of places, without a license.
    You cannot drive on public roads without a license.

    More or less, they are the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    People who want more will just turn to the black market as they always do. Have anti-pot laws stopped pot use? Not by a long shot. Any other drug? Nope. Not even making drugs prescription only has stopped their illegal distribution. The law functions in title only and dishes out punishments that aid the private prison system, but it does not stop substance use. Not now, not ever.
    Of course it won't stop it, but it would reduce it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I understand why you made this thread, but it's still a flawed comparison. Alcohol can be made from home made stills which was what happened during prohibition. It can't really be stopped. Guns can't be made in the average person's home and so gun violence could be DRASTICALLY reduced by outlawing guns or restricting them to people who prove they are qualified. Gun violence will always happen but the death rate per capita would drop.
    They're using 3d printers to make firearm receivers, out of plastic.
    It's still in the test phase, but once they perfect it, gun control is going to be mighty difficult.


    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    In reality I don't support gun or drug laws. I believe in personal responsibility and supporting people who have made honest mistakes and want to change their lives, such as alcoholic addicts.
    Of course, but this thread is designed to question the reasoning behind two things, which could cause societal harm and to see if people would allow exceptions for some deaths, but not for others.
    Either people need to be consistent with restrictions or they're showing bias.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Again, again and again, I'm not saying they are the same.
    However, if the end result, is the death of an innocent person/people, the individual who helped cause it, should be restricted from purchasing the things that played large part in doing so.

    Firearm background checks are near instantaneous in most instances, unless there are a lot of purchases during the day.
    If someone is a serial DUI offender, why should they still have ready access to retail alcohol, explain this.
    Harry, if I chug a six pack of say Dr. Pepper, chances are that I can correctly predict my behavior after I chug them. On the other hand, if I chug a six pack of beer...chances are that I can't correctly predict my behavior other than the obvious..."I'll be intoxicated". But then what will my behavior be?

    The reality is that alcohol can be bought in nearly every place one can purchase bread or milk. Now my point is that the world is willing to sell a product that impairs one's ability to predict their own behavior if consumed in a quantity that intoxicates them...and societies will fight to the death for the right to be able to intoxicate their self despite knowing the potential consequences.

    And yet...nobody wants to stand responsible for the consequences...knowing full well that booze impairs judgment and behavior...and will scream bloody murder when an intoxicated person can't control their behavior after consuming alcohol.

    Now if there was a test of some sort to identify people at birth...who will have behavior problems after drinking alcohol...all would be good if society could keep those individuals from drinking. But I'm inclined to believe that despite any law saying a person tested to be a potential risk to society if he or she drank alcohol...would bust his or her ass finding ways to drink.

    I can't think of any way possible to prevent people from engaging in horrible behaviors as a result of drinking...other than...like in Texas if a person is convicted of more than 3 DUI's...they're going to the State Correctional Facility, otherwise known as "prison". But so many of those folks get out of prison, and guess what they do? Yep...they repeat.

  6. #146
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Harry, if I chug a six pack of say Dr. Pepper, chances are that I can correctly predict my behavior after I chug them. On the other hand, if I chug a six pack of beer...chances are that I can't correctly predict my behavior other than the obvious..."I'll be intoxicated". But then what will my behavior be?

    The reality is that alcohol can be bought in nearly every place one can purchase bread or milk. Now my point is that the world is willing to sell a product that impairs one's ability to predict their own behavior if consumed in a quantity that intoxicates them...and societies will fight to the death for the right to be able to intoxicate their self despite knowing the potential consequences.

    And yet...nobody wants to stand responsible for the consequences...knowing full well that booze impairs judgment and behavior...and will scream bloody murder when an intoxicated person can't control their behavior after consuming alcohol.

    Now if there was a test of some sort to identify people at birth...who will have behavior problems after drinking alcohol...all would be good if society could keep those individuals from drinking. But I'm inclined to believe that despite any law saying a person tested to be a potential risk to society if he or she drank alcohol...would bust his or her ass finding ways to drink.

    I can't think of any way possible to prevent people from engaging in horrible behaviors as a result of drinking...other than...like in Texas if a person is convicted of more than 3 DUI's...they're going to the State Correctional Facility, otherwise known as "prison". But so many of those folks get out of prison, and guess what they do? Yep...they repeat.
    And largely I agree with all that.

    I am perfectly willing to accept, that with our privileges (aka "rights") and freedoms, there may be negative consequences, very bad consequences.
    I'm not going to cover up that guns are dangerous, especially in the wrong hands.

    I'm tired of the pile on, when it comes to guns.
    Legal and responsible gun owners, can't control the irresponsible and illegal gun owners, anymore than the safe drinkers can control the unsafe drinkers.
    Continuing to punish legal and responsible guns owners, for the actions of the bad, is the punishment not fitting the crime.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #147
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by BretJ View Post
    Good point. It was also used to make use of surplus grain. I guess that is kind of noble. Hehehehe
    Red wine is good for your heart and your prostate too. Can't say that about a bullet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  8. #148
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Harry, if I chug a six pack of say Dr. Pepper, chances are that I can correctly predict my behavior after I chug them. On the other hand, if I chug a six pack of beer...chances are that I can't correctly predict my behavior other than the obvious..."I'll be intoxicated". But then what will my behavior be?

    The reality is that alcohol can be bought in nearly every place one can purchase bread or milk. Now my point is that the world is willing to sell a product that impairs one's ability to predict their own behavior if consumed in a quantity that intoxicates them...and societies will fight to the death for the right to be able to intoxicate their self despite knowing the potential consequences.

    And yet...nobody wants to stand responsible for the consequences...knowing full well that booze impairs judgment and behavior...and will scream bloody murder when an intoxicated person can't control their behavior after consuming alcohol.

    Now if there was a test of some sort to identify people at birth...who will have behavior problems after drinking alcohol...all would be good if society could keep those individuals from drinking. But I'm inclined to believe that despite any law saying a person tested to be a potential risk to society if he or she drank alcohol...would bust his or her ass finding ways to drink.

    I can't think of any way possible to prevent people from engaging in horrible behaviors as a result of drinking...other than...like in Texas if a person is convicted of more than 3 DUI's...they're going to the State Correctional Facility, otherwise known as "prison". But so many of those folks get out of prison, and guess what they do? Yep...they repeat.
    Interesting thing, this state of
    Texas and their laws.
    Do they work ?
    Yes, as, the next Texas statue will be "three strikes and you are out" , aka, in Texas, DEATH..
    And, as we all know, this death penalty works well in reducing crime........
    The thing is, few have the stomach for alcohol prohibition..
    For many, alcohol is a necessity.
    As of now, I believe we do have the "stomach" for gun control...which is nothing more than 100% background checks and restrictions on assault weapons..
    And, BTW, we do have alcohol control in Pennsylvania, AKA "state stores", which the conservatives wish to do away with.
    With PA's controls, how do they compare to Texas (for one) ??
    We need controls, man is NOT fully developed..He has a long way to go.

  9. #149
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    To those that are arguing that "gun control" and "alcohol control" are too different to compare, I ask: In what ways are they different? The similarities are clear enough: unregulated, both cause deaths.

    People are not so evil as a whole to choose to kill other people more often than accidentally kill people, as evidenced by the fact that the number of alcohol related deaths is 2.5x's the amount of gun-related deaths annually (Alcohol linked to 75,000 U.S. deaths a year - Health - Addictions | NBC News vs How many gun deaths are in the US every year)

    Also factoring in the fact that only 47% of Americans own guns (Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993) while 67% of Americans drink (U.S. Drinking Rate Edges Up Slightly to 25-Year High), reduces the cause of death per capita death ratio from 2.5x's to 1.75x's. In short, alcohol is 1.75x's more likely to kill than gun ownership. (not including unreported gun ownership - which would likely significantly increase the death per capita ratio of alcohol killing more than gun-owners as so many gun-related deaths are homicides from weapons retrieved illegally)

    Why are so many for regulating guns more, but not alcohol when alcohol is more harmful to society? I believe I know the answer: It's similar to how if a Hurricane kills 6,000 people, that's a tragedy which we will mourn for half of a generation. If an act of terror kills 3,000 people (9/11), it will be mourned by the nation for possibly centuries. Acts of intent are psychologically more damaging to the people. All other arguments aside regarding whether regulating guns will increase or decrease crime statistics, I ask those that are for regulating guns, but oppose regulating alcohol: Is it because of safety or because of your personal psychological comfort that you wish to regulate guns? I ask that you put the facts before you and instead of making an emotional decision to regulate guns but not alcohol, see that the terror is just as real in both cases.

    Alcohol induced deaths are more of a threat to this nation; Our willingness to accept them as a part of our society is our willingness to stand up for freedom. If you're willing to undermine those freedoms for a cause less damaging, you are giving up your ground to stand on for freedoms more damaging, such as alcohol. I only suggest you consider other options other than government regulations to give your mind peace. That other option for me is gun-ownership. I have a lot of peace of mind having a gun very near me while I sleep.

  10. #150
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And largely I agree with all that.

    I am perfectly willing to accept, that with our privileges (aka "rights") and freedoms, there may be negative consequences, very bad consequences.
    I'm not going to cover up that guns are dangerous, especially in the wrong hands.

    I'm tired of the pile on, when it comes to guns.
    The "pile on" must continue until GOOD legislation is enacted.
    Legal and responsible gun owners, can't control the irresponsible and illegal gun owners, anymore than the safe drinkers can control the unsafe drinkers.
    Continuing to punish legal and responsible guns owners, for the actions of the bad, is the punishment not fitting the crime.
    You know, or should know that this is NOT true.
    The mother of the mass murderer is a good case in point.
    People who care about others can do a lot...
    She may have lived in fear of her own son...
    Where was the father ?
    Its called families....communities....society....easier in the cities where people are so close....out in the country there can be KKK rallies and only the cows would be bothered

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