View Poll Results: Should we propose further alcohol control?

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  • Yes

    4 11.76%
  • No

    23 67.65%
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Thread: Time for Alcohol Control?

  1. #131
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    So we're talking about restriction of freedom, not just the item being restricted. The freedom to bear arms is supposed to be a constitutional right. Anything with the power to defend me is going to have the equal power to assault and kill someone, innocent and unfairly.

    It's all about the freedom, where does others begin and mine end? It's where the law says it does what I've been saying all along. We can slice and dice the gun laws all day and it won't change hardly a hair on the criminal averages, short of complete gun confiscation. And even that would not work out very well.
    We become more strict with the measures of gun control which are currently in place and we become more strict with the illegal distribution of guns.

    Either that or we arm the entire population, no matter what the age.

  2. #132
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I propose,

    A background check system, for all alcohol purchases, supported by a fee, probably $25 per purchase.

    A limit to the amount of alcohol containers, that can be purchased per day.

    The limiting of alcohol percentages per volume, probably 5% or less.

    What say you?
    What about malted barley? I can pretty much DIY the whole brewing process but would have a pretty hard time coming up with my own malted barley. Would your proposition restrict sales of malted barley?

    If I wanted, I could grow my own apples and other fruits, harvest yeast from dregs of sour ales that I've made, and make hard ciders pretty much indefinitely. And if the restriction on alcohol was actually effective, I'd have a tempting opportunity to make good money selling my knowledge and products to the people I trust.

    But we've been down that road before as a country, eh?

  3. #133
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    I don't drink so controls would not effect me and I don't really see what the big deal is in controlling something that causes so many deaths. If only one life could be saved, I am all for it!
    The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
    " In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
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  4. #134
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And children die as a result of misuse of alcohol.
    And more so than by guns.... More than by gun but more spread out so it's not as dramatic.
    The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
    " In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
    "But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

  5. #135
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You're talking shades of grey here. And obviously anyone above the legal limit behind a wheel doesn't care enough about their own safety or anyone else, that's why they go to jail. If I go to just shoot someone and end up killing them will the law note the difference?
    The correct answer is that it shouldn't.... Same disregard for the lives of others.
    The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
    " In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
    "But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

  6. #136
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It already is controlled. But this is actually about guns.

    Alcohol, used as intended, is a lot less dangerous than guns when used as intended.
    Guns provide food and protect the bearer and members of their family when used as intended. I think that is a far more useful/noble intent than the consumption of alcohol. At least that is what mine are intended for.

    May I add that alcohol is far more dangerous than guns when not used as intended......
    Last edited by BretJ; 01-11-13 at 12:04 AM.
    The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
    " In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
    "But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

  7. #137
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by BretJ View Post
    Guns provide food and protect the bearer and members of their family when used as intended. I think that is a far more useful/noble intent than the consumption of alcohol. At least that is what mine are intended for.
    Fermentation was apparently an important way to preserve some calories to get you through the winter once upon a time in particularly cold climates.

  8. #138
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Oh sure, drugs having almost nothing to do the homicides. Maybe we should talk about drug cartels and guns at this point.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #139
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Fermentation was apparently an important way to preserve some calories to get you through the winter once upon a time in particularly cold climates.
    Good point. It was also used to make use of surplus grain. I guess that is kind of noble. Hehehehe
    The opposite of hero is not villain, it is "bystander"
    " In doing what we ought we deserve no praise, because it is our duty." -Aurelius Augustine
    "But why do they use them to make Brawndo??!!"

  10. #140
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    Re: Time for Alcohol Control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    First off, prohibition did work.
    Not to be all semantic, but it really does depend on how you define success. Like with current illegal narcotics, alcohol prohibition promoted a vast profitable underground network, increased the prison population, and as I mentioned earlier the government was actively spiking ethanol with methanol in its shipments to make sure bootleggers suffered steeply. Foremost it put a lot of downward cultural pressure on the USA to conform to an alien concept of not drinking when the surrounding countries and most of the entire world were doing it. Sure it probably stemmed some cirrhosis cases but who cares when freedoms are so curtailed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We don't outlaw automobiles because it's arguable that more people would die/be negatively socially effected, than if they weren't banned.
    The restrictions on driving (like needing a license) come from that very principle. You have to prove you understand the rules of the road and are not an obvious danger to other people before the State will give you permission to drive a vehicle. Your own argument is working against you now. By that logic we should do the same thing with guns because although most people are responsible, we can't trust the common good to prevail and must therefore ensure that people are qualified!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We can allow light purchases of alcohol, while prohibiting moderate and heavy purchases.
    People who want more will just turn to the black market as they always do. Have anti-pot laws stopped pot use? Not by a long shot. Any other drug? Nope. Not even making drugs prescription only has stopped their illegal distribution. The law functions in title only and dishes out punishments that aid the private prison system, but it does not stop substance use. Not now, not ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Heavy users increase their risk of cancer and have negative social effects like domestic violence and child abuse.
    I understand why you made this thread, but it's still a flawed comparison. Alcohol can be made from home made stills which was what happened during prohibition. It can't really be stopped. Guns can't be made in the average person's home and so gun violence could be DRASTICALLY reduced by outlawing guns or restricting them to people who prove they are qualified. Gun violence will always happen but the death rate per capita would drop.

    In reality I don't support gun or drug laws. I believe in personal responsibility and supporting people who have made honest mistakes and want to change their lives, such as alcoholic addicts.

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