• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Guns?

Will criminals still get guns?

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

Since some guns are illegally obtained from legal owners, I'm sure it'd go down a miniscule amount. However, not enough to be worth it.

The only way to remove the supply of A is to remove the demand of A. Why are Betamax VCRs no longer made? Nobody wants one.

When nobody wants a gun, guns will disappear. Short of that, it won't happen. It might go black market, but supply comes from demand.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

lizzie said:
Of course they will. They don't typically obtain them by legal means.
Click to expand...

They were talking about a study on the radio that first-time gun-using criminals only purchased their guns legally 8-12% of the time. 45% of them were obtained in the black market, another 40% were borrowed or stolen from friends or family members, there were some other options in there too. Even if you made gun ownership illegal, at least 45% would still get guns from black market sources and I suspect that most other criminals would just move to that option.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

Vapor said:
No, if only because we already have millions of guns floating around. Banning the sale of guns won't destroy those that were already sold.

No politician is stupid enough to suggest an outright gun ban, though, so chill out.
Click to expand...

No, not millions, billions. With a "b".
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

Cephus said:
They were talking about a study on the radio that first-time gun-using criminals only purchased their guns legally 8-12% of the time. 45% of them were obtained in the black market, another 40% were borrowed or stolen from friends or family members, there were some other options in there too. Even if you made gun ownership illegal, at least 45% would still get guns from black market sources and I suspect that most other criminals would just move to that option.
Click to expand...

Iirc, the FBI once had those stats published on their site, and I had it bookmarked, but it's no longer an active link. Do you have a new link with the information?
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

lizzie said:
Iirc, the FBI once had those stats published on their site, and I had it bookmarked, but it's no longer an active link. Do you have a new link with the information?
Click to expand...

No, I wish I did, like I said, I heard it on the radio a day or two ago.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

MoSurveyor said:
Conspiracy theory at it's finest. LOL!

I've been on the other side and switched sides. The only thing I don't like about being over here is putting up with so many conspiracy theorists and loons. Of course, many people probably think I'm a loon because I have some pretty radical views - but in my book a logical conclusion is a logical conclusion and there's no getting around it. In the end even outlawing tanks won't stop or reduce mass murders. The violence is a societal problem and treating a symptom like mass murderers with guns doesn't really solve anything. There are too many other options even if we got rid of all the guns. If people want to commit violent acts you can't really stop them (in advance) from doing so. If you want to stop the violence you have to address the social issues that cause it, which is where most Republicans and many Democrats fail.
Click to expand...

Conspracy theory at it's finest?????

There's nothing theoretcal about Obama and the Dems in Washington D.C. wanting to get rid of our guns. The signs are everywhere and have been going on since before 2008!
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

marsden said:
Conspracy theory at it's finest?????

There's nothing theoretcal about Obama and the Dems in Washington D.C. wanting to get rid of our guns. The signs are everywhere and have been going on since before 2008!
Click to expand...

You're almost as smart as this guy :lol:
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

Black market demand for guns remain inelastic, even in nations where there is a lot more gun control than the United States. If the intention is to address access to guns by those who might shoot up a school, then it would be more realistic to address bullying in schools as well as the lack of mental health resources available to the sick. Almost every school shooting from Columbine onward involved cases of intense bullying or individuals being treated for psychiatric disorders. The most recent assailent in the Connecticut massacre was on SSRIs for major depression and his family reported he was known to have withdrawl symptoms when missing doses, as well as being prone to suicidal ideation.

Every Federal administration since Bush Sr. has successively cut funding from the mental health sector and this has left a lot of people hanging out to dry. Not to mention, a lot of students in schools are dealing with intense mental health problems as a result of the ailing education system, poor supervision and classroom resources, and constant bullying.

I don't think blaming guns alone is going to solve this problem. The same week that the Connecticut shootings happened, a man in China injured 22 children at a school using a knife. The media will blame guns but our society's over all mental health is not in good shape.

Also, one last thing, the media is hugely to blame for the repeat in shootings, as this forensic psychiatrist will explain in this short youtube clip:

 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

repeter said:
So what you're telling me is, deploying a Deputy to every school in the country won't stop massacres from happening. It potentially mitigates them, by an unknown amount, and still failed to stop the attackers. By sheer luck, one of the attacker's weapons jammed. But he was not shot or wounded by the Deputy.

So, we might as well put up cardboard print-outs of kids, and hope the attackers shoot at those, and jam their guns, right? About as effective as the lone officer in this case.
Click to expand...

Stop making silly protests. It does not win your argument any more fans.

BTW, here is a quote from Larry Ward, the organzer of GUN APPRECIATION DAY, scheduled for Jan. 19, two days before Obama's second term swearing in.


Gun rights coalition proclaims Jan. 19 as
“The Obama administration has shown that it is more than willing to trample the Constitution to impose its dictates upon the American people,” said Ward, president of Political Media, Inc. “If the American people don’t fight back now, Obama will do the Second Amendment what he has already done to the First with Obamacare – gut it without a moment’s thought to our basic constitutional rights.”
Click to expand...
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

repeter said:
You're almost as smart as this guy :lol:
Click to expand...

Ask yourself this question: Would your post constitute a personal attack in the minds of our Mods?

In other words, watch your step.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

Northern Light said:
Every Federal administration since Bush Sr. has successively cut funding from the mental health sector and this has left a lot of people hanging out to dry. Not to mention, a lot of students in schools are dealing with intense mental health problems as a result of the ailing education system, poor supervision and classroom resources, and constant bullying.
Click to expand...

The mental health problems aren't a result of bullying, education, or poor supervision. The mental health issue is already present, and kids aren't learning to cope with their problems effectively anymore. We try to shield them from reality, rather than teaching them to deal with it.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

lizzie said:
The mental health problems aren't a result of bullying, education, or poor supervision.
Click to expand...

Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It's not black and white. The point I was trying to make is that looking at guns as "the problem" is shortsighted. There is too much focus on the weapon of choice and not the factors that go into creating the people who wield the weapons.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

lizzie said:
Iirc, the FBI once had those stats published on their site, and I had it bookmarked, but it's no longer an active link. Do you have a new link with the information?
Click to expand...
Cephus said:
No, I wish I did, like I said, I heard it on the radio a day or two ago.
Click to expand...
Not exactly what you guys were talking about - but close.

See sec.2.2.1, Gun Buyers, which starts on pg. 11/96 ...

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221074.pdf
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

marsden said:
Conspracy theory at it's finest?????

There's nothing theoretcal about Obama and the Dems in Washington D.C. wanting to get rid of our guns. The signs are everywhere and have been going on since before 2008!
Click to expand...
That rates a 2/3 ...

:lamo :lamo


As I've said before, extremists don't help the causes they"re fighting for, they just make matters worse. I suspect my stance on gun control is even more loose than yours but I have a rational explanation for it. Would you allow tanks in the driveway? I would and I've already explained why I would without using melodramatic conspiracy theories.
 
Last edited:
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

marsden said:
Do you believe that criminals will still have access to guns if a law is enacted to take guns away from law abiding citizens?

Yes or No

No 'maybe's' or 'sometimes' or 'I don't know's'

This one is as incisive as can be.
Click to expand...

HELL yes. 25 to 0 puts me in good company. ;)

How many guns do Americans own?

According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2009 there were an estimated 310 million firearms in the United States (not including weapons on military bases), of which 114 million were handguns, 110 million were rifles, and 86 million were shotguns. The current population of the United States, according to the Census, is around 314 million.

A separate calculation by the Government Accountability Office estimated that 118 million handguns were available for sale to, or were possessed by, civilians in the United States in 2010.

It’s impossible to know for certain how many guns are in private hands because there is no central firearms registry. The 1986 McClure-Volkmer Act forbids the federal government from establishing any “system of registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearms transactions or distribution.” And the 1993 Brady Act prohibits the establishment of any electronic registry of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions.
Click to expand...
I think the bolded part above is interesting. I didn't know that.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

MoSurveyor said:
That rates a 2/3 ...

:lamo :lamo


As I've said before, extremists don't help the causes they"re fighting for, they just make matters worse. I suspect my stance on gun control is even more loose than yours but I have a rational explanation for it. Would you allow tanks in the driveway? I would and I've already explained why I would without using melodramatic conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

What has the Obama administration done to make you trust them?
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

marsden said:
What has the Obama administration done to make you trust them?
Click to expand...
Obama is the 8th president we've had since I started caring about politics. I cut my political teeth on Tricky Dicky and Watergate. I had and have no reason to trust or distrust any of those administrations over any other. IMO, The Shrub was by far the worst and Daddy Bush was one of the best followed closely by Clinton. But in the end they really were all about the same - some were just better at hiding things than others.
 
Last edited:
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

marsden said:
Stop making silly protests. It does not win your argument any more fans.

BTW, here is a quote from Larry Ward, the organzer of GUN APPRECIATION DAY, scheduled for Jan. 19, two days before Obama's second term swearing in.


Gun rights coalition proclaims Jan. 19 as
Click to expand...

I just have to keep quoting everything you're saying, I don't even need to do anything else. Thanks for doing my job of making anti-gun control advocates look like lunatics. On the otherhand, you should feel terrible inside knowing that because of people with your views, we never have meaningful discussions.

On a side note, your quote is only relevant to your delusions and paranoid distrust of the government. It's not relevant to anything anyone else here is talking about.

marsden said:
Ask yourself this question: Would your post constitute a personal attack in the minds of our Mods?

In other words, watch your step.
Click to expand...

Oh no, you have me quivering in my boots! :roll:
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

I read an article in my local newspaper the other day about a kid that was arrested. He was planning to blow up his school. With bombs made from home. So yes, mass murders will still happen whether people have guns or not. Its not hard to make pipe bombs at home ya know. Most common things needed to make such is in practically every single kitchen and bathroom in every household.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

No vote, of course
Too obvious and silly.
The number one priority must be the health and welfare of our citizens..
Our government, our people must tell the gun lovers and the NRA to go to hell....where they belong.
We must regulate and control these weapons.
That men need lethal weapons for personal defense is hogwash !
This control, this record keeping, we can do now in the age of computers.....if we want to....
The mentally sound will be able to keep their guns and rifles.....we need the hunters and target shooting is, IMO, a OK sport. A rancher must be able to defend his animals...
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

joko104 said:
It is impossible to ban the sale of anything. The sale of items can only be outlawed.

Over 100,000,000 Americans have smoked pot. For all of them, doing so was illegal.

It would make guns more expensive, but then I think we all understand who liberals mostly want to disarm are poor people.
Click to expand...

I do not believe this for a minute.

Much closer to the truth is that we want to limit who can own weapons..

Rich or poor.... this has nothing to do with ownership.....but we do have our extremists.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

earthworm said:
No vote, of course
Too obvious and silly.
The number one priority must be the health and welfare of our citizens..
Our government, our people must tell the gun lovers and the NRA to go to hell....where they belong.
We must regulate and control these weapons.
...
Click to expand...

Frankly, I think what you really need to do is tell the gangbangers to go the hell, and stop shooting each other, and making their neighborhoods ****holes to live in. This is where the gun crime is happening. Not among NRA members.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

TurtleDude said:
well someone posted a picture of a woman that said this

she smokes pot

she thinks gun bans will stop criminals from having guns
Click to expand...
In the seizure process of the weapons from those who should not have them, there must be a "limited police state"..
This "she...pot...." example is utterly silly and too simplistic...
The thing is , do we want to do this ??
This police state business ?
There are those who place their so-called gun rights above the safety and welfare of our citizens..
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

lizzie said:
Frankly, I think what you really need to do is tell the gangbangers to go the hell, and stop shooting each other, and making their neighborhoods ****holes to live in. This is where the gun crime is happening. Not among NRA members.
Click to expand...
I could be wrong but I don't think any of our recent (past decade) mass murders has been carried out by gangbangers. However, I have to agree 100% that a majority of gun crime is a result of gang violence.
 
Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

MoSurveyor said:
I could be wrong but I don't think any of our recent (past decade) mass murders has been carried out by gangbangers. However, I have to agree 100% that a majority of gun crime is a result of gang violence.
Click to expand...

No, you are right, but the gun crime is being committed in urban innercity populations as a general rule, and no amount of gun control is going to keep the occasional crazy young white guy from losing his mind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom