View Poll Results: Will criminals still get guns?

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Thread: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Guns?

  1. #41
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    Do you believe that criminals will still have access to guns if a law is enacted to take guns away from law abiding citizens?

    Yes or No

    No 'maybe's' or 'sometimes' or 'I don't know's'

    This one is as incisive as can be.
    yep, of course they will

    im all in favor of control that is rational and effect and most importantly doesnt empower criminals and harm law abiding citizens.

    in general, gun bans, and clip limits are moronic, worthless and illogical with out 100 other things to go with them that are likely impossible to do.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Like pretty much everyone here (except those stubborn enough to say they already know), I'd like to see some comprehensive studies conducted. Ideally, they'll take into provide recommendations for areas of different demographics and population densities (you can't compare hicksville Montana to Chicago or LA). Based on that, I'd like to see legislation, and I'm sure there would be legislation of some type, because we have far too much gun violence at present to not do anything.

    Right now, I personally advocate reduction/elimination of weapons that exceed those required for self-defense and hunting (you don't need an AR-15 for hunting game). At the same time, I'd like to see California and New York become shall-issue states for concealed carry permits, and I'd like to see most states decrease the requirements for a concealed weapons permit (I don't know what they are at present, state-by-state, but concealed firearms are largely beneficial).

    I do not think we need to put guns at schools, in the form of armed guards (there was one at Columbine, by the way). I would be okay with removing most no-gun areas, with the exception of places like courts.
    Have you ever bothered to research the facts of the Columbine massacre with particular regard to the difference the armed school guard made in saving lives there?

    I hadn't until now. And the reason why I did it just now is because I'm dog tired of having you guys bring up that portion of the truth without telling the ENTIRE story.

    And, no, I didn't know what I'd find when I looked it up but I was inclined to feel that the media you devour hasn't bothered to tell you the truth so you sure wouldn't be able to tell the entire story here.

    And sure enough, you are now on notice that that tired old half-truth will only be slapped down by truth seekers from now on. And this is what they will use to swat it with.

    But I was peeved to see Dave Weigel and a couple others imply that having armed police presence at schools wouldn’t help prevent mass shootings there because, after all, Columbine High School had a sheriff’s deputy on scene when the shooting broke out.

    That’s right, but it isn’t like the deputy was sitting around eating doughnuts during the Columbine massacre. He traded fire (that is, he drew fire) with Harris for an extended period of time, during which Harris’s gun jammed. The deputy and the backup he immediately called for exchanged fire with the shooters a second time and helped begin the evacuation of students, all before the SWAT teams and the rest of the cavalry arrived, and before Harris and Klebold killed themselves in the library. Harris and Klebold had an assault plan — a sloppy plan, but a plan nonetheless. They had dozens of IEDs, some of which detonated, others of which did not. And there were two of them. In this highly chaotic tactical environment, the deputy acted both bravely and prudently, and who knows how many lives he saved by engaging Harris.

    At Newtown, Lanza was delayed from entering the school’s main entrance, and had to shoot his way in through a security window. His tactics were far less sophisticated than Harris’ and Klebold’s. It’s not implausible to think, afforded the time to respond by Lanza’s delay at the front door, an armed officer could have put him down before he began killing in earnest. Not a guarantee, but far from implausible.
    ‘Columbine Had an Armed Guard.’ - By Daniel Foster - The Corner - National Review Online

    The armed guards prevented what easily could have been a much greater loss of life.

  3. #43
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Diane Feinswine and a GOP judge both want complete confiscation of the stuff called "assault weapons"

    those who think gun bans will stop crime would probably support a complete gun ban if you asked them while having them attached to a car battery. The only reason they don't admit it now is that they now being honest would retard their agenda
    While that may be true for some of the more extreme gun-control nuts, I don't believe that's true for the majority. Even when I was a gun-control nut I didn't want to get rid of hunting rifles, shotguns, or pistols. A good hunter doesn't need a semi-automatic and six rounds should be enough for 99.9999% of self-defense situations.


    But you know my stance on gun control, now: There should be no control on any kind of gun - not even full auto, burst, or artillery.
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    When you listen to the gun control or anti-gun lobbyists ask yourself if their agenda is to keep the kids safe or do they have another axe they are attempting to grind.

    The ONLY agenda we should permit to be advanced is that which will best safeguard the kids.

    Period.

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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    When you listen to the gun control or anti-gun lobbyists ask yourself if their agenda is to keep the kids safe or do they have another axe they are attempting to grind.
    Conspiracy theory at it's finest. LOL!

    I've been on the other side and switched sides. The only thing I don't like about being over here is putting up with so many conspiracy theorists and loons. Of course, many people probably think I'm a loon because I have some pretty radical views - but in my book a logical conclusion is a logical conclusion and there's no getting around it. In the end even outlawing tanks won't stop or reduce mass murders. The violence is a societal problem and treating a symptom like mass murderers with guns doesn't really solve anything. There are too many other options even if we got rid of all the guns. If people want to commit violent acts you can't really stop them (in advance) from doing so. If you want to stop the violence you have to address the social issues that cause it, which is where most Republicans and many Democrats fail.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-09-13 at 07:02 AM. Reason: sp
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  6. #46
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    When you listen to the gun control or anti-gun lobbyists ask yourself if their agenda is to keep the kids safe or do they have another axe they are attempting to grind.

    The ONLY agenda we should permit to be advanced is that which will best safeguard the kids.

    Period.
    In our society, it isn't only about safeguarding, but about constitutional rights. I honestly believe that most anti-gunners are misinformed, and having knee-jerk reactions, without thinking their stance through to the end. Many of them think that our society, if disarmed, would be the same as, say, Japan, with their gun control laws. The problem is, our culture is so very different than many others, because of our diversity, and because we are so diverse, we are also more proned to more inner conflict. When a population is this large, and has so many people from different cultures, division, at least minor divisions, are to be expected. Gun control in this country would cause harm to honest law-abiding citizens, but would not disarm criminals. In Japan, their population is so homogenous, that they all strongly identify with each other, and law enforcement officials are so personally involved in the community, that crime is not ususally considered a rational or acceptable way of life.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  7. #47
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    Have you ever bothered to research the facts of the Columbine massacre with particular regard to the difference the armed school guard made in saving lives there?

    I hadn't until now. And the reason why I did it just now is because I'm dog tired of having you guys bring up that portion of the truth without telling the ENTIRE story.

    And, no, I didn't know what I'd find when I looked it up but I was inclined to feel that the media you devour hasn't bothered to tell you the truth so you sure wouldn't be able to tell the entire story here.

    And sure enough, you are now on notice that that tired old half-truth will only be slapped down by truth seekers from now on. And this is what they will use to swat it with.



    ‘Columbine Had an Armed Guard.’ - By Daniel Foster - The Corner - National Review Online

    The armed guards prevented what easily could have been a much greater loss of life.
    So what you're telling me is, deploying a Deputy to every school in the country won't stop massacres from happening. It potentially mitigates them, by an unknown amount, and still failed to stop the attackers. By sheer luck, one of the attacker's weapons jammed. But he was not shot or wounded by the Deputy.

    So, we might as well put up cardboard print-outs of kids, and hope the attackers shoot at those, and jam their guns, right? About as effective as the lone officer in this case.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    In our society, it isn't only about safeguarding, but about constitutional rights. I honestly believe that most anti-gunners are misinformed, and having knee-jerk reactions, without thinking their stance through to the end. Many of them think that our society, if disarmed, would be the same as, say, Japan, with their gun control laws. The problem is, our culture is so very different than many others, because of our diversity, and because we are so diverse, we are also more proned to more inner conflict. When a population is this large, and has so many people from different cultures, division, at least minor divisions, are to be expected. Gun control in this country would cause harm to honest law-abiding citizens, but would not disarm criminals. In Japan, their population is so homogenous, that they all strongly identify with each other, and law enforcement officials are so personally involved in the community, that crime is not ususally considered a rational or acceptable way of life.
    If gun control was legislated on a federal level, ignoring the demographics of different states, I would agree, it would be most harmful than beneficial. However, at a state-by-state level, it can be much more effective. Potentially, federal requirements to decrease gun violence by a given percentage by a given date would serve as a motivating force for states that have gun violence issues.

    A state like Montana probably wouldn't need to do much, or anything. They have a relatively homogeneous population of white people (89.4% in 2012, according to this). This example is moderately comparable to Japan, in terms of population variables. With culture taken into account, I'd say that its gun violence is about as low as it can get, without actually removing every gun in the state, which needless to say is an impossibility. Marsden, I really hoping you won't quote the previous line, and make some "1776 will commence again" reminiscent comment. It really doesn't help your credibility, or that of anti-gun control advocates, and I hope you realize that.

    Other places, like California, Illinois, could stand to look at legislation of some sort. Problem areas like LA and Chicago need to be addressed, and we should let the states figure out what is best for them. If they want to try removing regulations, and it works, great! If they increase regulations and it works, again, great! But we need to do something, because what we have right now obviously doesn't work.
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    Do you believe that criminals will still have access to guns if a law is enacted to take guns away from law abiding citizens?
    Do criminals have access to heroin? Did they have access to alcohol when that was taken away? Yes, they did in both instances and if guns were made illegal, criminals would have access to them. That's the main reason why I don't think guns should ever be totally illegal - it would give gangs one more thing to go crazy over.

  10. #50
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    Re: Will Criminals Still Have Access to Guns if the Law Takes Away the Good Guy's Gun

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    Do you believe that criminals will still have access to guns if a law is enacted to take guns away from law abiding citizens?

    Yes or No

    No 'maybe's' or 'sometimes' or 'I don't know's'

    This one is as incisive as can be.
    Yes criminals will still have access to firearms if the government decides to take them away from law abiding citizens.Our country is not completely surrounded water.If 12-20 million plus people and a **** load of drugs can get into our country illegally then I am sure guns can be brought illegally into this country to.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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