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Technology and education

Read the question. You agree?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • No

    Votes: 26 81.3%
  • Total voters
    32
Peter Grimm said:
Just browsing the internet, I am already seeing degrees offered online that were not offered even 5 years ago. You can now get an engineering degree from USC, an MBA from Duke or UNC, all online. That trend will only continue.
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Every engineering degree you can do online is quite a huge step under the real college degrees. For instance, you can only get electronics engineering degrees online, not electrical engineering. The difference in pay is substantial. Fact is, for jobs like engineering, you are worthless if you've just read a bunch of books. You need LOTS and LOTS of hands on time in the lab, and that simply can't be done online.

cpwill said:
I love my kindle. But I can only do fiction. Non Fiction I have to highlight and write notes in the margin and keep for later referencing - and it's just not as friendly with kindle as it is with paper.
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I ran into that problem as well. The kindle e-ink is PERFECT for pictureless fiction. Reading textbooks and magazines on it is awful though. I got a kindle fire as well and both magazines and textbooks are absolutely fantastic. So each device is oriented towards
 
Ikari said:
But people won't, and that's one reason for University and its standards.
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Who said anything about dropping universities or their curricula? They perform a vital function. I'm simply saying that a lot of what we do today in a physical classroom could be brought to the masses cheaper and more effectively via the internet.

Ikari, you are always saying how more Americans need to get a science education. Given that, you should support the growth of online education.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Think about the cost. The fact is, college is a huge expense for families, and for taxpayers. Most university education is heavily subsidized. So I ask - is the fact that some people out there prefer to take in-person classes really a good enough reason to stick to that model?

Think about it. We have at our fingertips the technology to educate not only the elites of society, but EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN. That is the power of the internet. Imagine what that could be like.

The other point I'd make is that education should ideally be ongoing. I can envision a future where working professionals are constantly taking online courses to better themselves throughout their careers.
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No I agree with you. It really does open a lot of possibilities. From lower costs and less student debt to greater competition among insititutions since they won't be restricted by geography. I really like the idea you mention of individuals constantly learning while working and really becoming lifelong students.

I do think the downside of less contacts made is real though. Facebook, Google, both were hatched in a university environment that depended on the contacts and individuals they met in college. There is a benefit to ambitious bright individuals coming together that seems to have a lot of benefits.
 
Peter Grimm said:
OK, fair enough. Ask yourself this question, though. If you could get the same degree, with the same prestige and job opportunities afterward, but pay $100 grand less for it, wouldn't you take that?
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Peter, my entire collegeiate education cost about $38,000; of which about $13-15,000 of it was covered by scholarships and another $2,000 by a student loan. The rest was paid by me and my parents. You wouldn't catch me anywhere near a program that cost $100,000; nevermind one whose cost could be REDUCED by $100,000.

Peter Grimm said:
The fact is, college is a huge expense for families, and for taxpayers. Most university education is heavily subsidized. So I ask - is the fact that some people out there prefer to take in-person classes really a good enough reason to stick to that model?
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Is the fact that it's less expensive (the only benefit I really see) worth throwing out a system that has worked for a couple hundred years?

Peter Grimm said:
Think about it. We have at our fingertips the technology to educate not only the elites of society, but EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN. That is the power of the internet. Imagine what that could be like.
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I believe we already significantly OVER-EDUCATE a massive portion of our population as it is, Peter. Why would I want to make it easier for these people to continue wasting their time and money on education they will never use?
 
Peter Grimm said:
Who said anything about dropping universities or their curricula? They perform a vital function. I'm simply saying that a lot of what we do today in a physical classroom could be brought to the masses cheaper and more effectively via the internet.

Ikari, you are always saying how more Americans need to get a science education. Given that, you should support the growth of online education.
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No, I support the growth of people in college, not necessarily online education. Science, math, art, music, and philosophy education is important; but many of these require "lab" work which cannot be performed online (maybe philosophy; but still the physical campus is ideal for that vs. online).
 
Peter Grimm said:
The great thing about the internet is the diversity of options that could be on the table. You could take courses in literally anything, thus giving you as "well rounded" an education as either you or the university deem fit.
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I agree that is a possibility, however not a probability, unless pushed or guided by some fairly well planned course or goal. Not many actively seek to be so self motivted or self challenged, they now drop out of even a free HS educational program offered, not to seek further knowledge on their own, but to escape the pressure to achieve any further edcuation at all.
 
Tigger said:
Peter, my entire collegeiate education cost about $38,000; of which about $13-15,000 of it was covered by scholarships and another $2,000 by a student loan. The rest was paid by me and my parents. You wouldn't catch me anywhere near a program that cost $100,000; nevermind one whose cost could be REDUCED by $100,000.
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You went to a state school. A good portion of the total cost of your education was subsidized by the state's taxpayers.

Online education is something that conservatives and liberals should be able to agree on. Conservatives will like that it lowers the substantial tax burden that states currently pay to offer subsidized college education. Think about that - lower taxes, less government regulation, and a free-market education system.

Liberals will like that finally, we have at our fingertips the technology to educate EVERYONE. No longer will anyone be at a disadvantage because they are poor, because of their background, or any other reason. Education, and all the benefits that come with it, can now be practically obtained by every single American.
 
Hell NO!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I agree that is a possibility, however not a probability, unless pushed or guided by some fairly well planned course or goal. Not many actively seek to be so self motivted or self challenged, they now drop out of even a free HS educational program offered, not to seek further knowledge on their own, but to escape the pressure to achieve any further edcuation at all.
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Two points - A.) Fine. If they're adults, let them. B.) I don't think the current structure will be completely replaced. I'd still like to see degrees offered by institutions like Harvard, UNC, etc. I'd like them to set up the curricula, and I'd like them to grade the coursework and interact with me in every way they otherwise would. I'd just like for a good chunk of that education to be available online rather than in a traditional lecture hall, so that I can work and pay for it at the same time, and not have to move to a college town. I'd also like the cost-savings that such an education would entail. (Not me, I've already been through school.)
 
Peter Grimm said:
Two points - A.) Fine. If they're adults, let them. B.) I don't think the current structure will be completely replaced. I'd still like to see degrees offered by institutions like Harvard, UNC, etc. I'd like them to set up the curricula, and I'd like them to grade the coursework and interact with me in every way they otherwise would. I'd just like for a good chunk of that education to be available online rather than in a traditional lecture hall, so that I can work and pay for it at the same time, and not have to move to a college town. I'd also like the cost-savings that such an education would entail. (Not me, I've already been through school.)
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Then go to Community College. You act as if there is no alternative. Online courses are all fine and dandy; but it cannot replace entire academic curriculum.
 
Ikari said:
No, I support the growth of people in college, not necessarily online education. Science, math, art, music, and philosophy education is important; but many of these require "lab" work which cannot be performed online (maybe philosophy; but still the physical campus is ideal for that vs. online).
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Math, art, philosophy... I can't see how any physical presence at all is needed. Let me know if you disagree.

Music.... meh. It could be done online as well.

Science - yes some lab work will have to be done somewhere physically, but lectures don't need to be.

In all, I would imagine you could reduce the physical requirements of a university by about 80%.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You went to a state school. A good portion of the total cost of your education was subsidized by the state's taxpayers.
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Nope. I went to Johnson & Wales University in Providence, RI from the fall of 1992 until my graduation in the spring of 1994 with an Associates of Science Degree in Computer Aided Design and Drafting. I went to a school whose entire focus at the time was on turning out people for a CAREER. There were no fluff courses. No padded degree programs where you don't get a class in your major until your Junior year. No worthless liberal arts classes to waste time. Just a meat and potatoes education in my chosen field with no filler or fluff. The fact that their programs are no longer like that is part of the reason I no longer support my alma mater.

Peter Grimm said:
Online education is something that conservatives and liberals should be able to agree on. Conservatives will like that it lowers the substantial tax burden that states currently pay to offer subsidized college education. Think about that - lower taxes, less government regulation, and a free-market education system.
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The government subsidy for Education should be $0.00, regardless of whether it's in-person or online.

Peter Grimm said:
Liberals will like that finally, we have at our fingertips the technology to educate EVERYONE. No longer will anyone be at a disadvantage because they are poor, because of their background, or any other reason. Education, and all the benefits that come with it, can now be practically obtained by every single American.
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As i said, we over-educate many people already. This will only increase that.
 
Ikari said:
Then go to Community College. You act as if there is no alternative. Online courses are all fine and dandy; but it cannot replace entire academic curriculum.
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It's not up for debate, Ikari, universities are already going in this direction. The number of online degrees offered today compared with only a few years ago is stunning. The trend will only continue as technology advances.

The best thing to come from it will be somewhat of an end to academic snobbery. Finally, human society has reached a point where information is not scarce, but is an abundant commodity. No longer to universities need to be selective when it comes to admissions - since admissions will no longer be limited by the number or quality of professors they can hire. The internet evens the playing field for everyone.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Math, art, philosophy... I can't see how any physical presence at all is needed. Let me know if you disagree.
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I disagree.

Peter Grimm said:
Music.... meh. It could be done online as well.
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Not as effectively and efficiently as in the classroom.

Peter Grimm said:
Science - yes some lab work will have to be done somewhere physically, but lectures don't need to be.

In all, I would imagine you could reduce the physical requirements of a university by about 80%.
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Lectures are the least amount of time you spend. The majority of the time is homework (which benefits from being on campus due to the amount of resources) and research (which requires that you be in the lab).

In the end you have very little understanding of what is done in academia. While it is possible to move certain subjects and classes to online, it cannot take the whole of that academic curriculum.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's not up for debate, Ikari, universities are already going in this direction. The number of online degrees offered today compared with only a few years ago is stunning. The trend will only continue as technology advances.

The best thing to come from it will be somewhat of an end to academic snobbery. Finally, human society has reached a point where information is not scarce, but is an abundant commodity. No longer to universities need to be selective when it comes to admissions - since admissions will no longer be limited by the number or quality of professors they can hire. The internet evens the playing field for everyone.
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The trend will certainly continue, but it will not take over 100%. And there certainly are limits, some of which certainly depend on the number and quality of professors which are hired.
 
Ikari said:
The trend will certainly continue, but it will not take over 100%. And there certainly are limits, some of which certainly depend on the number and quality of professors which are hired.
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Here's one that's right up your alley. Stanford University apparently offers a good number of their lectures in video format, many of which are free to the public.

Example here:

Above is lecture one in a full course on Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, taught by the renowned Leonard Susskind. You can catch the rest of the course at Stanford's youtube channel.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Here's one that's right up your alley. Stanford University apparently offers a good number of their lectures in video format, many of which are free to the public.

Example here:

Above is lecture one in a full course on Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, taught by the renowned Leonard Susskind. You can catch the rest of the course at Stanford's youtube channel.
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Of course they do. That doesn't mean you can gain a physics degree by watching a few videos.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Not yet.
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Not ever. Recorded lecture is fine and dandy, but it cannot replace lab work, nor does it grant access to necessary tools and resources often found on college campuses, it also restricts severely contact times with professors and department tutors.
 
Ikari said:
Recorded lecture is fine and dandy,
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Watching a recorded lecture is equivalent to sitting in the lecture hall and taking notes. It's "fine and dandy" in exactly the same sense that attending your class is "fine and dandy."

Ikari said:
but it cannot replace lab work,
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Agree, with the caveat that computer simulations are getting better by the day. I'm sure a lot more labwork could be completed online than you'd like to admit.

Ikari said:
nor does it grant access to necessary tools and resources often found on college campuses,
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Many of which are being scanned electronically and will soon be accessible online.

Ikari said:
it also restricts severely contact times with professors and department tutors.
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Email, skype, telephone, and internet forums are great ways to ask questions.
 
I think it is funny that people believe apparently that most folks go to college just to learn. Kind of hard to score with a drunk co-ed through online lectures.
 
Fisher said:
I think it is funny that people believe apparently that most folks go to college just to learn. Kind of hard to score with a drunk co-ed through online lectures.
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Too many people go to school on their parent's dime, or on the taxpayer's dime, only to party it up. I had to give you a "like," though, because you speak the truth and it made me laugh.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Watching a recorded lecture is equivalent to sitting in the lecture hall and taking notes. It's "fine and dandy" in exactly the same sense that attending your class is "fine and dandy."
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With just a recording there is no immediate feedback, no way to ask questions. If there's a way to communicate and interact, then it's just like you are in lecture and in which case class size would again need to be limited such that so many questions do not get asked that it affects the lecture.

Peter Grimm said:
Agree, with the caveat that computer simulations are getting better by the day. I'm sure a lot more labwork could be completed online than you'd like to admit.
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Computer simulations are not substitute to hand on device. Not everyone is getting a degree in theory.

Peter Grimm said:
Many of which are being scanned electronically and will soon be accessible online.
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Some of which may.

Peter Grimm said:
Email, skype, telephone, and internet forums are great ways to ask questions.
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Great way to ask questions, not a great way to get answers.
 
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