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Thread: Technology and education

  1. #121
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Internships allow a student to get his foot in the door, so to speak, at a company. It's a great way to secure a job for the future.
    But they're so prized that they can get a job anywhere, yes? So said you. Ergo, they need not this "foot in the door". And thus they can do the necessary research for engineering that cannot be supported by the private sector.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #122
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There is not. However, for the advanced Engineer, it will take place there as Academia is where the resources are aggregated to such level as to allow for the necessary research into engineering. A lot of "pre-internet engineering" or whatever your're trying to claim may have been formed off campus (I'd like some statistics on that, BTW); but where do most of those people meet?
    Just because it happens that way now, doesn't mean, it will or should in the future.
    In all honesty, I have a sort of chip on my shoulder with institutional research.

    Laws have been created which prevent more non institutional engineering, especially chemical engineering.
    Trying to buy regents, is a bitch, if you're not an institution.
    To me, it's sort of an ego trip for institutions, to think they should the primary source of creation and building.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #123
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Just because it happens that way now, doesn't mean, it will or should in the future.
    In all honesty, I have a sort of chip on my shoulder with institutional research.

    Laws have been created which prevent more non institutional engineering, especially chemical engineering.
    Trying to buy regents, is a bitch, if you're not an institution.
    To me, it's sort of an ego trip for institutions, to think they should the primary source of creation and building.
    There are some odd rules that does hinder some amount of resource aggregation by non-academics. But that's mostly dumb ass government rules that have made that. Academia IS the primary source of basic research because base scientific and engineering research is not feasible in the private sector. That's why we subsidize it with slave labor, i.e. the Grad Student.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #124
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are some odd rules that does hinder some amount of resource aggregation by non-academics. But that's mostly dumb ass government rules that have made that. Academia IS the primary source of basic research because base scientific and engineering research is not feasible in the private sector. That's why we subsidize it with slave labor, i.e. the Grad Student.
    I'm not sure if it's government or industry protectionism.
    I don't have any data either way to support, either side.

    I just know, that some chemicals are off limits to "home" chemists and that they have to be synthesized from other sources.
    Academia has a purpose, but I believe that current state of things, creates a sort of self fulfilling prophecy.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #125
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm not sure if it's government or industry protectionism.
    I don't have any data either way to support, either side.

    I just know, that some chemicals are off limits to "home" chemists and that they have to be synthesized from other sources.
    Academia has a purpose, but I believe that current state of things, creates a sort of self fulfilling prophecy.
    You should see some of the rules on the labs...you'd think that we were handling weapons grade plutonium or something when it's just optical grade methanol.

    I think one of the real problems with Academia is that it's being treated as a business when it's not really a business. Dilutes the education and pulls focus from where it should be.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #126
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You should see some of the rules on the labs...you'd think that we were handling weapons grade plutonium or something when it's just optical grade methanol.
    I work in a warehouse, we have to have MSDS sheets for engine oil and anti freeze and have to do half assed training on how to clean up chemical spills.
    It's idiotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think one of the real problems with Academia is that it's being treated as a business when it's not really a business. Dilutes the education and pulls focus from where it should be.
    I agree.
    If anything it's exploratory research and I tend to think that if it's subsidized by the state, the fruits of such research should be open source (no patent protections for the results).
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #127
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But they're so prized that they can get a job anywhere, yes? So said you. Ergo, they need not this "foot in the door". And thus they can do the necessary research for engineering that cannot be supported by the private sector.
    So... you don't want competition for the free labor you currently enjoy. You want unpaid lab rats to do the legwork for your experiments, thus you would deny them the opportunity to get jobs in the real world which could actually help them get a job in the future. Got it.

  8. #128
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    Re: Technology and education

    Guys, "academia" is not the word you're looking for. The word is "academe."

    FYI.

    Academe - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

  9. #129
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If anything it's exploratory research and I tend to think that if it's subsidized by the state, the fruits of such research should be open source (no patent protections for the results).
    It's pretty hard to patent things from a government lab, it turns out. But I do agree, base research cannot be supported by the private industry; it's too costly and takes too long. We subsidize it through grad students and paying them crap (though they get an education, so it's win-win in the end). The normal ebb and flow is that an engineer or a scientist does research, gets the PhD, goes out to industry and then actually starts developing solutions based on their research. It does have to flow out of academia and into the private sector, else it falls apart.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #130
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    Re: Technology and education

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Just because it happens that way now, doesn't mean, it will or should in the future.
    In all honesty, I have a sort of chip on my shoulder with institutional research.

    Laws have been created which prevent more non institutional engineering, especially chemical engineering.
    Trying to buy regents, is a bitch, if you're not an institution.
    To me, it's sort of an ego trip for institutions, to think they should the primary source of creation and building.
    You're not building a bomb in your basement, are you?

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