Same Question....New Context

tecoyah · Oct 28, 2006

Lets just try this again.....please read the information below:

BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]

"BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05]

BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course. [12/15/03]

BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We’ll stay the course. [4/13/04]

BUSH: And that’s why we’re going to stay the course in Iraq. And that’s why when we say something in Iraq, we’re going to do it. [4/16/04]

BUSH: And so we’ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04]"

Followed By:

"BUSH: Well, hey, listen, we’ve never been “stay the course,” George. We have been — we will complete the mission, we will do our job, and help achieve the goal, but we’re constantly adjusting to tactics. Constantly."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/...progress.org/2006/10/22/bush-stay-the-course/

Next:

"WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.

Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview. "

followed by:

"White House denies Cheney hailed 'water boarding'

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House said Friday that Vice President Dick Cheney was not talking about a torture technique known as "water boarding" when he said dunking terrorism suspects in water during questioning was a "no-brainer."

Human rights groups complained that Cheney's comments amounted to an endorsement of water boarding, in which the victim believes he is about to drown.

President Bush, asked about Cheney's comments, said, "This country doesn't torture. We're not going to torture." He spoke at an Oval Office meeting Friday with NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/27/cheney.torture.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

So the question is very simple......can we call it Lying now?

A simple Yes or No ....will do

Billo_Really · Oct 28, 2006

The answer is "YES!"

He says we don't torture. Then turns around and signs legislation allowing him to torture. Yeah, he's a liar alright. But what scares me, is maybe he knows he is and just doesn't care.

Gordon Shumway · Oct 28, 2006

How can water boarding be torture when it is used in the training of U.S. soldiers?

Tashah · Oct 28, 2006

Gordon Shumway said:
How can water boarding be torture when it is used in the training of U.S. soldiers?

Would you please post a citation to verify/clarify this?

Napoleon's Nightingale · Oct 30, 2006

Gordon Shumway said:
How can water boarding be torture when it is used in the training of U.S. soldiers?

Water boarding falls under the definition of torture in international law.

tecoyah · Oct 30, 2006

Hmmmm....only one reply to the question. I will take the lack of interest by those in support of the current administration as....well....what it is.

We can now officially state:

" We are Being Lied to by our Leaders"

dragonslayer · Oct 30, 2006

tecoyah said:
Lets just try this again.....please read the information below:

BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]

"BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05]

BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course. [12/15/03]

BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We’ll stay the course. [4/13/04]

BUSH: And that’s why we’re going to stay the course in Iraq. And that’s why when we say something in Iraq, we’re going to do it. [4/16/04]

BUSH: And so we’ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04]"

Followed By:

"BUSH: Well, hey, listen, we’ve never been “stay the course,” George. We have been — we will complete the mission, we will do our job, and help achieve the goal, but we’re constantly adjusting to tactics. Constantly."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/...progress.org/2006/10/22/bush-stay-the-course/

Next:

"WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.

Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview. "

followed by:

"White House denies Cheney hailed 'water boarding'

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House said Friday that Vice President Dick Cheney was not talking about a torture technique known as "water boarding" when he said dunking terrorism suspects in water during questioning was a "no-brainer."

Human rights groups complained that Cheney's comments amounted to an endorsement of water boarding, in which the victim believes he is about to drown.

President Bush, asked about Cheney's comments, said, "This country doesn't torture. We're not going to torture." He spoke at an Oval Office meeting Friday with NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/27/cheney.torture.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

So the question is very simple......can we call it Lying now?

A simple Yes or No ....will do

Yes it is lying, and deceit.

If one repeats a lie a thousand times, its is always a lie, even if through sheer repititon, it come to be believed by some.

Doremus Jessup · Oct 30, 2006

No! It is wrong to question the president in this time of never-ending war.
Why do you hate freedom so much?

Saboteur · Oct 30, 2006

Aye matey, they be lyin' scum.

'Tis too bad the memory of the American public has a shorter life span than a cabin boy with scurvey yar.

jallman · Oct 30, 2006

It is not a simple yes or no answer. Yes, we are being lied to, that much is evident. But no, we are not being lied to with any more malice or insidious intentions than any previous president.

Goobieman · Oct 30, 2006

An aside:

liberalism

a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity;

Well, that DQs most of the people on the American left.

a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard;

Again, that DQs most of the people on the American left.

a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties

You might make a case for "progess", as they get to define the word, and the part regarding ptoecting political/civil liberties, but its pretty clear that the American left is very selective on what political/civil liberties they want to protect.

Jerry · Oct 30, 2006

tecoyah said:
Same Question....New Context

:beatdeadhorse
"Bush lied"
"Nu uhh!"
"Yah huh!"
:beatdeadhorse

This topic bears no fruit.

aquapub · Oct 30, 2006

tecoyah said:
Lets just try this again.....please read the information below:

1)
"BUSH: Well, hey, listen, we’ve never been “stay the course,” George. We have been — we will complete the mission, we will do our job, and help achieve the goal, but we’re constantly adjusting to tactics. Constantly."

2)

"WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning."

1)

:bs

This statement is about clarifying that his "stay the course" rhetoric is about staying in Iraq till the job's done rather than refusing to ever change tactics. This is not a contradiction and certainly isn't a lie.

I would say nice try, but this was just dumb.

2)

:bs

There's a reason all the news sources claiming Cheney confirmed a policy of waterboarding won't publish the transcript as is...It's a total lie. Cheney never confirmed any such thing. He was asked if giving a terrorist "a dunk" was a no-brainer, and he said that PERSONALLY, for him, it was.

Cheney doesn't consider "a dunk" to equal waterboarding, and he was being asked about his personal views, not about the policies of the president.

Neither of these examples are what you are distorting them to mean. Have some integrity, and stop taking far left sources like CNN at their word. :roll:

jallman · Oct 30, 2006

aquapub said:
1)

:bs

This statement is about clarifying that his "stay the course" rhetoric is about staying in Iraq till the job's done rather than refusing to ever change tactics. This is not a contradiction and certainly isn't a lie.

I would say nice try, but this was just dumb.

2)

:bs

There's a reason all the news sources claiming Cheney confirmed a policy of waterboarding won't publish the transcript as is...It's a total lie. Cheney never confirmed any such thing. He was asked if giving a terrorist "a dunk" was a no-brainer, and he said that PERSONALLY, for him, it was.

Cheney doesn't consider "a dunk" to equal waterboarding, and he was being asked about his personal views, not about the policies of the president.

Neither of these examples are what you are distorting them to mean. Have some integrity, and stop taking far left sources like CNN at their word. :roll:

blah blah blah you're a liberal so blah blah blah bias in the media blah blah blah the liberal media blah blah blah you are distorting facts blah blah blah

tecoyah · Oct 30, 2006

aquapub said:
1)

:bs

This statement is about clarifying that his "stay the course" rhetoric is about staying in Iraq till the job's done rather than refusing to ever change tactics. This is not a contradiction and certainly isn't a lie.

I would say nice try, but this was just dumb.

No...It was Bush making a statement. The statement ran contrary to established reality....Not even a nice try.

2)

:bs

There's a reason all the news sources claiming Cheney confirmed a policy of waterboarding won't publish the transcript as is...It's a total lie. Cheney never confirmed any such thing. He was asked if giving a terrorist "a dunk" was a no-brainer, and he said that PERSONALLY, for him, it was.

Cheney doesn't consider "a dunk" to equal waterboarding, and he was being asked about his personal views, not about the policies of the president.

So...you now have personal insight nto the mind of the VP of the United States.....Impressive. Again....not even a good try....kinda sad actually that you even tried.

Neither of these examples are what you are distorting them to mean. Have some integrity, and stop taking far left sources like CNN at their word. :roll:

My integrity is intact, and is not the subject of this thread...yours however has just dropped down to the level of those in question.

jfuh · Oct 30, 2006

Goobieman said:
An aside:

liberalism

Well, that DQs most of the people on the American left.

Again, that DQs most of the people on the American left.

You might make a case for "progess", as they get to define the word, and the part regarding ptoecting political/civil liberties, but its pretty clear that the American left is very selective on what political/civil liberties they want to protect.

blah blah blah you're a liberal so blah blah blah bias in the media blah blah blah the liberal media blah blah blah you are distorting facts blah blah blah

Ehhem bullshit

jfuh · Oct 30, 2006

In response to the thread - I take no one will be surprised

LIAR!!!!

So yes

Topsez · Oct 30, 2006

tecoyah said:
Lets just try this again.....please read the information below:

BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]

"BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05]

BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course. [12/15/03]

BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We’ll stay the course. [4/13/04]

BUSH: And that’s why we’re going to stay the course in Iraq. And that’s why when we say something in Iraq, we’re going to do it. [4/16/04]

BUSH: And so we’ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04]"

Followed By:

"BUSH: Well, hey, listen, we’ve never been “stay the course,” George. We have been — we will complete the mission, we will do our job, and help achieve the goal, but we’re constantly adjusting to tactics. Constantly."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/...progress.org/2006/10/22/bush-stay-the-course/

Next:

"WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.

Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview. "

followed by:

"White House denies Cheney hailed 'water boarding'

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House said Friday that Vice President Dick Cheney was not talking about a torture technique known as "water boarding" when he said dunking terrorism suspects in water during questioning was a "no-brainer."

Human rights groups complained that Cheney's comments amounted to an endorsement of water boarding, in which the victim believes he is about to drown.

President Bush, asked about Cheney's comments, said, "This country doesn't torture. We're not going to torture." He spoke at an Oval Office meeting Friday with NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/27/cheney.torture.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

So the question is very simple......can we call it Lying now?

A simple Yes or No ....will do

No! It's not a lie... Stay the course has always meant "We will stay until victory is accomplished" and adjusting tactics has always been the method to end in victory... the problem was the press taking "Stay the course" as meaning we are going to stubornly stay doing the same as we have been doing... In every occasion if the entire transcript were read back where "Stay the course" was used reference was made to how the commanders on the ground were adjusting tactics to stay the course and end in victory. Stay the course means perservere to victory.

We do not torture... it is against the law... we have classified programs for interviewing hardcore terrorists... it is against the law to reveal classified documents so no one knows if waterboarding is used or not but if it is it isn't considered torture because torture is against the law.

dragonslayer · Oct 31, 2006

Doremus Jessup said:
No! It is wrong to question the president in this time of never-ending war.
Why do you hate freedom so much?

this is silly. It is never wrong question a president in time of never ending war. It would be unAmerican to allow Bush to put so many people to death, without asking questions. Don't forget that Bush caused this war for his own reasons which we will never truly ever know. Many thousands of people in Iraq are dead because of this war. The given reasons for this war are all lies, and we all know this now. Iraq was a hundred time more better off under Sadam, and his crazy sons, than with Bush and his crazy corporate buddies.

Of course being aware of the long history between the Bush Family and Saudi Royal house, and the Kuwaiti Royal house, one cannot be surprised by the overflowing riches being paid by the united States for Oil from these Countries.

We need to get back to fighting and destroying terrorists instead of creating them with our stupid behavior, and our ignorant leadership.
It is easy to stay the course and get more people killed for nothing. It would take some guts to get the hell out and stop the Killing of americans in Iraq.

I love freedom, and I am all for protecting the constitution from our President and his right wing corporate fascist buddies.

Topsez · Oct 31, 2006

dragonslayer said:
this is silly. It is never wrong question a president in time of never ending war. It would be unAmerican to allow Bush to put so many people to death, without asking questions. Don't forget that Bush caused this war for his own reasons which we will never truly ever know. Many thousands of people in Iraq are dead because of this war. The given reasons for this war are all lies, and we all know this now. Iraq was a hundred time more better off under Sadam, and his crazy sons, than with Bush and his crazy corporate buddies.

Of course being aware of the long history between the Bush Family and Saudi Royal house, and the Kuwaiti Royal house, one cannot be surprised by the overflowing riches being paid by the united States for Oil from these Countries.

We need to get back to fighting and destroying terrorists instead of creating them with our stupid behavior, and our ignorant leadership.
It is easy to stay the course and get more people killed for nothing. It would take some guts to get the hell out and stop the Killing of americans in Iraq.
I love freedom, and I am all for protecting the constitution from our President and his right wing corporate fascist buddies.

The areas in bold are examples of how brainwashed you are... Please explain how you came up with these thoughts because they really sound stupid when read out loud.

Trajan Octavian Titus · Oct 31, 2006

Tashah said:
Would you please post a citation to verify/clarify this?

Boot Camp as Torture

By James Joyner
Max Boot argues that those overly concerned about “torture” have apparently never been to boot camp:

HOLD THE PRESSES. I’ve discovered that the use of torture by the U.S. government is far more pervasive than previously believed. There are major facilities all over the country where thousands of men and women who have not committed any crime are held for prolonged periods while subjected to physical and psychological coercion that violates every tenet of the Geneva Convention.
They are routinely made to stand for long periods in uncomfortable positions. They are made to walk for hours while wearing heavy loads on their backs. They are bullied by martinets who get in their faces and yell insults at them. They are hit and often knocked down with clubs known as pugil sticks. They are denied sleep for more than a day at a time. They are forced to inhale tear gas. They are prevented from seeing friends or family. Some are traumatized by this treatment. Others are injured. A few even die.
Should Amnesty International or the International Committee of the Red Cross want to investigate these human-rights abuses, they could visit Parris Island, S.C., Camp Pendleton, Calif., Ft. Benning, Ga., Ft. Jackson, S.C., and other bases where the Army and Marines train recruits. It’s worth keeping in mind how roughly the U.S. government treats its own defenders before we get too worked up over the treatment of captured terrorists.

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.
2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner’s face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2005/12/boot_camp_as_torture/

............................................................

dragonslayer · Oct 31, 2006

Topsez said:
The areas in bold are examples of how brainwashed you are... Please explain how you came up with these thoughts because they really sound stupid when read out loud.

Did you read the book too. talk about Brainwashed. You are totally out of orbit with the american people. Ok, I read the News, watch the News, listen to Bush's speeches, and think. I add 2 and 2 and get 4. you add 2 and 2 and get 6.4. I have recorded on DVD and tape, all of Bush's, cheney's, and Rummy's speechs since 2004 election. Do yu remember the 2004 election? You know the one where the supreme court appointed Bush, so he would not have to go home in defeat. Remember the election fraud in Florida? Remember the election fraud in Ohio? there the people voted for Kerry and the diebold machines voted for Bush. Remember.

MSgt · Oct 31, 2006

Moderator's Warning:

Caution: Civility parking. Violators will be towed.

It would be helpful if we could all hate each other with civility. Also if we are going to reply at all, we should do more than just the "blahs." It's baiting and sets up the stage for future Moderator action.

Topsez · Oct 31, 2006

dragonslayer said:
Did you read the book too. talk about Brainwashed. You are totally out of orbit with the american people. Ok, I read the News, watch the News, listen to Bush's speeches, and think. I add 2 and 2 and get 4. you add 2 and 2 and get 6.4. I have recorded on DVD and tape, all of Bush's, cheney's, and Rummy's speechs since 2004 election.

Ok, I should have challenged your points individually... I can understand how you may be frustrated about the elections but that shouldn't influence the broader view of the world and history since Prez Bush took office... If you recall Prez Clinton and his Secretary of State said Saddam had to go in 98... and I do think congress passed legislation indicating the same and Prez Clinton signed it... Now, those who dislike bush like I dislike Senator Kennedy float in a sea of denial in an alter parrallel universe... It is like you are a sponge soaking up every little tad of conspiricy and negativity when I read you post.

Prez Bush may have made some mistakes administering the Iraq War but all of this Bush lied and people died crap is just that much crap... there were no lies and the congress had equal information that Prez Bush had... Of course if a Democratic senator says, I would have done everything different and you take that as to mean Prez Bush did everything wrong then you are just wrong.

I didn't read any book on brainwashing... I watch news and read news also and store data much differently than you...

Do yu remember the 2004 election? You know the one where the supreme court appointed Bush, so he would not have to go home in defeat.

I remember the Supreme Court Chief Justice swearing Prez Bush in... I think you are referring to the 2000 election ... That was the one with VP Gore and Senator Lieberman... in the 2004 election VP Gore and Joe were on opposite teams Joe for Joe and VP Gore for Howard and collectively they couldn't get 13% of the Dems to back them collectively... maybe that's an omen that the court decided Florida correctly in 2000 since these guys didn't even do anything like Prez Bush and you guys lost almost total respect for the both of them collectively and it continues till today with Joe...

Remember the election fraud in Florida? Remember the election fraud in Ohio? there the people voted for Kerry and the diebold machines voted for Bush. Remember.

Yes, VP Gore and Joe team counted tens of thousands of pregnant chads, hanging chads and dimpled chads... Ohio is a Republican state with lots of blacks that vote Democratic... this year they will probably be voting Democratic because of internal State Republican issues... I don't know about the diebold machines ... I heard something about Hugo Chaves had something to do with them but he thinks Bush is the devil like you... What about all of those slached tires on Republican get out to vote vans and blacks being able to vote without ID's... If you are black and live in a tri-state then you can vote three times in a federal election ... I would think you would be concerned to correct that.

talloulou · Oct 31, 2006

With current technology, 24 hours news, cell phones that take pictures, ect ect almost anyone can be captured contradicting themselves and looking like a liar.

As far as if the president is a liar I for one have come to expect that I as a civilian am never gonna know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That's just the way it is.

As far as this topic and pertaining to "Stay the course" yeah he said it a million times. And yes he is now saying his policy was never merely "stay the course." So yeah you could call him a liar on that point but really I believe he is just clarifying that stay the course was never intended to mean just keeping on doing what you're doing regardless of outcome. He is clarifying that by stay the course he meant "complete the mission" and don't pull out before the mission is done. Either way though strategically Iraq isn't going as planned, it's much harder, and if you believe the media it's all going to hell in a hand basket over there.

Whether we are going to be able to pull it together and complete the mission or if the mission at this point is even clear seems pretty debatable and new plans aren't exactly being presented to us. Now that could mean that strategically it's best to keep plans quiet or it could mean we are flying by the seat of our pants over there. Who knows? I for one hope it works out someway or another because a pseudo democratic Iraq would be beneficially to the global world. And just as I don't believe some kids are just born rotten to the core I try not to believe that the Iraqis can only be ruled by an evil dictatorl

As for Cheney he shoots friends in the face so obviously water boarding is nothing! That is a no brainer:mrgreen:

Same Question....New Context

tecoyah

Illusionary

Billo_Really

Gordon Shumway

New member

Tashah

Napoleon's Nightingale

tecoyah

Illusionary

dragonslayer

Counselor

Doremus Jessup

Saboteur

jallman

Goobieman

Jerry

aquapub

jallman

tecoyah

Illusionary

jfuh

jfuh

Topsez

dragonslayer

Counselor

Topsez

Trajan Octavian Titus

dragonslayer

Counselor

MSgt

Read Some Books

Topsez

talloulou