View Poll Results: Your stance on space programs

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  • I'm an American and I consider NASA a priority

    38 63.33%
  • I'm an American and I don't consider space programs a priority

    12 20.00%
  • I'm an American and I want more international coop (NASA + ESA + other)

    20 33.33%
  • I'm an European and I consider ESA a priority

    2 3.33%
  • I'm an European and I want more international coop

    2 3.33%
  • I'm an European and I don't care about space programs

    0 0%
  • I'm Russian and I want more for Roscosmos

    1 1.67%
  • I'm Russian and I want more cooperation

    1 1.67%
  • I'm Russian and I don't care about space programs

    0 0%
  • I'm (other) and herp derp, I leave comment

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

  1. #171
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    I understand that manned space missions are more expensive. Therefore I propose a womanned one.

  2. #172
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    To the users that addressed my statement there is nothing useful in space: If you read my follow on comments, I clarified the meaning of it. It doesn't matter if the moon is made of gold. It is not cost effective for us to go and get the gold. Therefore, it is useless. Kal showed me that I hadn't illustrated my point well with his initial response. I am aware that there are useful resources in space. But they are only useful if you spend less money to get them than you would take in by getting them.
    Of course they are cost prohibitive right now. And they always will be unless we develop cheaper ways to do this. But we will never develop those ways if we shut everything down due to the cost right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    To the other points, the economics of the space program are negligible ie jobs would go to the private industry (Space X, etc), the products made (if they are really that necessary) will be researched and created by other gov't/private industry entities, and the 1 for 8 dollar argument would be negligible once in the hands of the private market as they would increase that margin. Also, to the 1 for 8 dollar point, why do we keep giving them money? If they are such a profitable organization, shouldn't they be able to fund themselves? The fact of the matter is, NASA can massively cut it's budget just like every other gov't entity can. We won't massively cut it because then the politician(s) responsible for it will be labeled as "anti-science" "anti-NASA", etc.
    Actually those jobs that NASA creates is not just in NASA itself. It is also created in the private sector. Indeed that is what that section of wiki was also talking about that I quoted you earlier.

    And while NASA is profitable the government, including NASA is not out to make profit. All the extra money that NASA makes goes towards other government programs. You can blame Congress for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    This entire debate is whether the NASA program is a priority. To that point, I say a hearty no. Now, as I've said numerous times, in a different economic and world climate I would say yes lets get into space as fast as possible. But when you're running up a now 16 trillion plus debt, frivolous spending (including massive military spending, massive foreign aid, etc) needs to be cut or pared down. NASA should be pared down to satellite management/repair. That's it. There is no reason for our country to spend billions of dollars for a mission to mars when we can't even get pot holes plugged in the interstate here. This argument is about emotion more than substance as most everyone on this thread is arguing for their grandfather's now what seems mythical NASA that got to the moon and was so glorious in it's heyday. Well, the heyday's over. We are in extremely tough times. "The worst since the great depression" so I've been told for the last 4 years. If that's the case, shouldn't we be cutting the spending and therefore the taxes of hard working Americans? Yeah, we should. But instead, people such as yourselves want to see cool pictures from Mars. That doesn't sit well with me.
    But that is the thing. The US will ALWAYS be in debt. If you want to talk priorities then you should be taking from those things that cost the most and actually harm us first. Either by triming, shutting down or whatever. It is programs like military spending and welfare that should be cut long before NASA because they actually cause more harm than NASA ever has in its entire history in just a couple of years of their history.
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  3. #173
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Let me fix that last sentence for you. THAT is why NASA and ESA were important.
    Still are important. There are materials that can be made in orbit that cannot easily be made in a gravity well. Space stations, supporting missions to the local asteroids and Mars, would include all sorts of manufacturing facilities that could likewise benefit industry on Earth. This would create jobs, the most reliable way to stimulate any economy, and create a whole plethora of new technological skill sets. The ripple effect of concerted space development would be felt through all the economies of countries that participate. And that's just the warmup.
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Space exploration has been done to the extent that it needed to be done. At this point it should be a back burner, slow-grow for government, mostly related to national security and hard science only. Some of the slack is being absorbed by the private industry. It's just a big show-off thing at this point, some kids grew up wanting to have the ego of having been where few humans have gone, at the cost of billions, it's absurd now. You still see it entertainment, SPACE + COWBOYS, it's embarssing.

    Compute should be where we invest in as a nation. Even just our broadband is way behind a number of other developed nations, and just getting further and further behind. Yet there is not a person here so ignorant as to not understand that compute is where 99% of the future of everything relevant to humanity will be found over the next centuries.

    Space? Sure, but we'll send automated pilots that don't feel G forces and need to eat and piss or be trained...OR RETURN MISSIONS. No shuttle tragedy, no problem.

    Military: They are already going gang busters with drones, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    Everyone consumer/private: Our lives revolve around tech these days, from advances in health care and cheaper medicine, our communications, entertainment, productivity/work connectiveness, problem solving for any and all disciplines, etc., etc.

    That's how I see it anyway. Not that I didn't support space exploration of the past, it was essential for national security and satellite, and to know our boundaries. We know it now, and the frontier is compute/AI.

  5. #175
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    ....., and to know our boundaries. We know it now, and the frontier is compute/AI.
    We haven't even begun to reach much less know our boundaries.

    The only boundaries that there are are those that we set for ourselves.
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Space? Sure, but we'll send automated pilots that don't feel G forces and need to eat and piss or be trained...OR RETURN MISSIONS. No shuttle tragedy, no problem.
    Sure, we'll start with robots. That's a smart move. Initial risks and the solutions can be established safely with robots first. But robots would do this to pave the way for manned (and womanned) expeditions. Manned exploration is indeed riskier, but also more flexible and adaptable. Once human beings establish themselves in space, that's when the real growth and the real benefit emerges.
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Here is something on what Goshin was talking about.....

    Hubble Reveals Primitive Galaxies Near Cosmic Dawn



    WASHINGTON — Astronomers have used NASA's Earth orbiting Hubble Space Telescope to reveal primitive galaxies -- vast clusters of stars -- that are more than 13 billion years old. One of them might be the oldest ever observed.

    A team of scientists used NASA's Hubble Space Telescope for a cosmic "dig" of sorts, peering even deeper into the universe, looking, in effect, even further back in time. They discovered seven previously unseen galaxies that formed more than 13 billion years ago, not that long in cosmic time, after the birth of the universe.

    Ellis, along with other astronomers involved in this study, says older galaxies exist, but they are beyond the range of the 23-year-old Hubble telescope. They say they are eager to use Hubble's successor, the James Webb Space Telescope, to see what wonders the universe still has in store, looking even farther back in space and time.

    The James Webb telescope is set for launch in 2018.....snip~

    Hubble Reveals Primitive Galaxies Near Cosmic Dawn



    First 'Alien Earth' Will Be Found in 2013, Experts Say
    Thu, Dec 27, 2012 - The first truly Earth-like alien planet is likely to be spotted next year, an epic discovery that would cause humanity to reassess its place in the universe.

    While astronomers have found a number of exoplanets over the last few years that share one or two key traits with our own world — such as size or inferred surface temperature — they have yet to bag a bona fide "alien Earth." But that should change in 2013, scientists say. "I'm very positive that the first Earth twin will be discovered next year," said Abel Mendez, who runs the Planetary Habitability Laboratory at the University of Puerto Rico at Arecibo.

    Planets piling up.

    Astronomers discovered the first exoplanet orbiting a sunlike star in 1995. Since they, they've spotted more than 800 worlds beyond our own solar system, and many more candidates await confirmation by follow-up observations. NASA's prolific Kepler Space Telescope, for example, has flagged more than 2,300 potential planets since its March 2009 launch. Only 100 or so have been confirmed to date, but mission scientists estimate that at least 80 percent will end up being the real deal.

    The first exoplanet finds were scorching-hot Jupiter-like worlds that orbit close to their parent stars, because they were the easiest to detect. But over time, new instruments came online and planet hunters honed their techniques, enabling the discovery of smaller and more distantly orbiting planets — places more like Earth. Last December, for instance, Kepler found a planet 2.4 times larger than Earth orbiting in its star's habitable zone — that just-right range of distances where liquid water, and perhaps life as we know it, can exist.

    The Kepler team and other research groups have detected several other worlds like that one (which is known as Kepler-22b), bringing the current tally of potentially habitable exoplanets to nine by Mendez' reckoning.....snip~

    First 'Alien Earth' Will Be Found in 2013, Experts Say - Yahoo! News

    They say this year they will find An Alien Earth!

  8. #178
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Why not so anymore?

    Has anyone sent a manned mission to Mars or any other celestial object other than the moon? And weren't the moon landings decades ago?


    Might it not be necessary for NASA and ESA to pioneer the methods necessary to do such things, so that private companies know what to expect?
    To what end though? My point in emphasizing were was that there are private space programs that can do what we need done ie satellite tracking/repair. As far as Mars, etc, who cares right now? Our country is in a fiscal crisis. Screw the bells and whistles.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  9. #179
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Of course they are cost prohibitive right now. And they always will be unless we develop cheaper ways to do this. But we will never develop those ways if we shut everything down due to the cost right now.
    The point of NASA is to keep pushing the envelope though. They don't stop at the moon, they go to Mars. NASA will always be cost prohibitive because it will always seek to improve and go further.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually those jobs that NASA creates is not just in NASA itself. It is also created in the private sector. Indeed that is what that section of wiki was also talking about that I quoted you earlier.
    So we can simply move the rest of the them to the private sector then. No biggie right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And while NASA is profitable the government, including NASA is not out to make profit. All the extra money that NASA makes goes towards other government programs. You can blame Congress for that.
    We can blame Congress for a lot of things lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    But that is the thing. The US will ALWAYS be in debt. If you want to talk priorities then you should be taking from those things that cost the most and actually harm us first. Either by triming, shutting down or whatever. It is programs like military spending and welfare that should be cut long before NASA because they actually cause more harm than NASA ever has in its entire history in just a couple of years of their history.
    I agree the US will always be in debt. But there's a difference between rising, uncontrollable debt and steady, manageable debt. IMO, priorities should be set as what we need the most, then go from there. Sure, NASA takes a small piece of the pie but when you make concessions for one agency, you make them for all. Every agency can pitch to Congress why their program is SO IMPORTANT and NEEDS to be kept. The video earlier showed that. So if everyone goes in with some awesome speech to pitch their program (job), and the idiots in Congress fall for it (as they tend to do), we are back at square one. All programs should be on the table, I totally agree with you there. But the size of them shouldn't be taken into account. It should be their usefulness to the countries prosperity.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  10. #180
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    Re: Space programs and their support among the population [W:91]

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Still are important. There are materials that can be made in orbit that cannot easily be made in a gravity well. Space stations, supporting missions to the local asteroids and Mars, would include all sorts of manufacturing facilities that could likewise benefit industry on Earth. This would create jobs, the most reliable way to stimulate any economy, and create a whole plethora of new technological skill sets. The ripple effect of concerted space development would be felt through all the economies of countries that participate. And that's just the warmup.
    Can you name some of said materials?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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