View Poll Results: Is it unreasonable to pay a little more?

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  • Yes. I'm a greedy bastard!! I need MORE!!!

    28 28.87%
  • No. There's comes a point in wealthiness where it just doesn't even matter anymore.

    61 62.89%
  • I'm not sure.

    8 8.25%
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Thread: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

  1. #421
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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    Again...how does continuing to give handouts allow people to try to find work? all it does is eliminate the incentive to do so, since you have removed the fear of starving to death.
    Well, "giving them handouts" allows them to find work, as it gives them the very basics of life. If a person can't attain sustenance, you won't be seeing them in the work force any time soon. Providing those in extreme poverty with food(shelter, clean water, etc.) allows them to stay alive while they look for employment. Also, you can't be serious when you say we should use starvation as incentive, can you?

    That's absolutely disgusting

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Well, "giving them handouts" allows them to find work, as it gives them the very basics of life. If a person can't attain sustenance, you won't be seeing them in the work force any time soon. Providing those in extreme poverty with food(shelter, clean water, etc.) allows them to stay alive while they look for employment. Also, you can't be serious when you say we should use starvation as incentive, can you?

    That's absolutely disgusting
    the problem is that IN THEORY giving them handouts allows them to find work. In practice, giving them handouts has allowed them to sit back and keep getting handouts.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the problem is that IN THEORY giving them handouts allows them to find work. In practice, giving them handouts has allowed them to sit back and keep getting handouts.
    It does both, there's no theory here. A person can't look for a job if they don't eat, but, at the same time, they're given the ability to not work for a living.

    Do you know of Micheal Harrington? Well, he was an political activist in the middle of the 20th century(and one of Nixon's political enemies). In the the book that earned him a place in US political history, he made a few very important points on this subject:
    1. In Harrington's time canvassing the states, he found that those in extreme poverty almost always barely made it by. Their living conditions were incredibly poor, as was their health due to what they ate. This brings up what little we know about human nature: That, given poor conditions(and even good ones), human beings will almost always try to better their lives.
    2. Harrington also found that those in extreme poverty were proud and nearly always searching for work - or better work, depending upon their employment status.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    1. That, given poor conditions(and even good ones), human beings will almost always try to better their lives.
    then explain why there are generation after generation of people living in housing projects and trailer parks, despite the govt spending $$$$$$ on low income scholarships, jobs programs, etc, etc. the prevailing sentiment is "if it was good enough for momma, it is good enough for me"

    2. Harrington also found that those in extreme poverty were proud and nearly always searching for work - or better work, depending upon their employment status.
    again...then explain why there are trailer parks and housing projects full of people who have never worked a day in their life
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    then explain why there are generation after generation of people living in housing projects and trailer parks, despite the govt spending $$$$$$ on low income scholarships, jobs programs, etc, etc. the prevailing sentiment is "if it was good enough for momma, it is good enough for me"

    again...then explain why there are trailer parks and housing projects full of people who have never worked a day in their life
    There are a few reasons for that, the most prominent one being class poverty. The cost of education, which is the primary cause behind class poverty, has held an incredibly pervasive seat within the economics of this country.

    Others, such as various economic crises, play a role as well.

    But this isn't about class poverty and american economic history, it's about what to do now. And that "what" is not to use fear of death as a tool for motivation.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    The cost of education, which is the primary cause behind class poverty, has held an incredibly pervasive seat within the economics of this country.
    the "cost" of education is a cop out. if you are poor you qualify for govt grants. my best friend got his college degree paid for by the govt via pellgrants. there are any number of programs where a "poor" person can get an education at little or no cost....they just have to get off their ass and do it.

    And that "what" is not to use fear of death as a tool for motivation.
    well, that was your strawman, if you don't think it's valid...stop arguing with yourself over it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the "cost" of education is a cop out. if you are poor you qualify for govt grants. my best friend got his college degree paid for by the govt via pellgrants. there are any number of programs where a "poor" person can get an education at little or no cost....they just have to get off their ass and do it.
    There are also other limiting factors such as having to stay home and support the family(a friend of mine was in this position), the quality of the high school education as a result of location, health issues, quality of the college education as a result of cost, the flight of the middle class(employers included) from urban areas, and the increased influence of drugs in urban areas. But I don't think you need the premise of the class poverty argument explained to you.

    well, that was your strawman, if you don't think it's valid...stop arguing with yourself over it.
    Unless you believe a person can survive without food, I don't believe that was a straw man.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    There are also other limiting factors such as having to stay home and support the family(a friend of mine was in this position),
    another cop out. my wife stayed home with the kids while I worked two jobs and attended class at night. it just takes being willing to make short term sacrifice for long term gains. something being given a handout removes the incentive to do.

    the quality of the high school education as a result of location,
    another lame excuse. I attended one of the poorest rural high schools in one of the poorest counties in my state and that didn't stop me from getting a college education

    quality of the college education as a result of cost,
    again....scholarships and grants for low income people make this just another lame excuse

    the flight of the middle class(employers included) from urban areas
    and why do they flee? could it be because the oh so noble poor have turned urban areas into ****holes?

    the increased influence of drugs in urban areas.
    why would hard working people who are trying to better themselves do drugs?

    But I don't think you need the premise of the class poverty argument explained to you.
    no, I don't...since it is mostly nothing but one lame excuse after another



    Unless you believe a person can survive without food, I don't believe that was a straw man.
    maybe you need to look up the definition of strawman. I never said a person could live without food, and you were the one who brought the issue up and started arguing against it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    another cop out. my wife stayed home with the kids while I worked two jobs and attended class at night. it just takes being willing to make short term sacrifice for long term gains. something being given a handout removes the incentive to do.



    another lame excuse. I attended one of the poorest rural high schools in one of the poorest counties in my state and that didn't stop me from getting a college education



    again....scholarships and grants for low income people make this just another lame excuse



    and why do they flee? could it be because the oh so noble poor have turned urban areas into ****holes?



    why would hard working people who are trying to better themselves do drugs?



    no, I don't...since it is mostly nothing but one lame excuse after another





    maybe you need to look up the definition of strawman. I never said a person could live without food, and you were the one who brought the issue up and started arguing against it.
    That's a load of crap and you know it. What you're doing is fundamentally challenging the idea of class poverty - something that's been a longstanding part of American public policy for decades. Call the various causes "lame excuses" and misunderstand their foundation all you'd like, but my point still stands: Historically, the poor, generally centered in urban areas, tend to stay poor. Not to mention the growing divide between rich and poor, only helped by the Republican advocacy of spending cuts.

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    Re: Is it unreasonable for the wealthiest to pay a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I couldn't answer the poll. The answer is YES. Why? It is their ****ing duty.
    so if the fleas say the dog should permit more biting and the fleas have more votes being parasatized is now the dog's duty

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