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The Pledge of Allegiance

Should kids be required to recite The Pledge of Allegiance?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 32 72.7%
  • Total voters
    44
No because of freedom of speech, and indoctrination does not teach our children anything and its kinda a freedom issue.
 
I think it should be allowed, but not required. I don't think anyone should tell my child what to say in school. That's my job as a parent to teach my kids the right way to think, or be, or to be able to think for themselves. That's why I'm against prayer in schools. Now I am a Christian, don't get me wrong. But if Christian prayers are allowed in school, then all other religions have to be allowed as well, and there are some facets of certain religions that I don't want my child participating in, until they are old enough to make up their own minds. Religion should be taught at home. So does any allegiance that the local school district feels the need to indoctrinate into my child.
 
Reflexively repeating a slogan without thinking based on childhood indoctrination is the kind of "patriotism" that breeds authoritarians. True patriotism comes not from being coerced or brainwashed into saying you love your country, but choosing it of your own free will. Children should learn to like America because our nation proves itself worthy, not because it is demanded in the classroom.
 
Absolutely in early formative years. There needs to be an awareness and foundation for having loyalty to your homeland and we should expect that from every child.

I can remember saying it up until 5th grade. I don't recall ever saying it before class in high school. I'm fine with the way I did it growing up. Were any of you scarred as a youth by it? Unable to break free from the brainwashing of your youth? I think not. You all are overselling this "blind patriotism" crap.
 
Yes, if freedom and liberty mean nothing anymore.

No, if freedom and liberty still mean something.

American principles cannot be forced onto people or they are not American principles. But thanx folks for showing your true colors sieg heil! to all of you idiots that failed history class...
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Yes, if freedom and liberty mean nothing anymore.

No, if freedom and liberty still mean something.

American principles cannot be forced onto people or they are not American principles. But thanx folks for showing your true colors sieg heil! to all of you idiots that failed history class...
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Paschendale said:
No one should be required to recite anything. Freedom of speech includes the freedom not to speak.
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Your Star said:
No, because you know that whole freedom of speech thing.
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Are we now assuming that our constitutional rights were/are meant to be meted out with absolutely no limitations? Bwahahahahahaha......... You guys with your Utopian views of the world just crack me up sometimes. :lol:
 
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FluffyNinja said:
Are we now assumimg that our constitutional rights were/are meant to be meted out with absolutely no limitations? Bwahahahahahaha......... You guys with your Utopian views of the world just crack me up sometimes. :lol:
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If your going to make some point just make it, and don't beat around the bush.
 
Your Star said:
If your going to make some point just make it, and don't beat around the bush.
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Point is simply this....Freedom of Speech (and of expression) is not a "be all, end all" concept......it has been and IS routinely limited LEGALLY in many, many cases in this country for obvious reasons...........public schools being one such institution which, for logical reasons......"gets away with" limiting free speech, and thus, free expression.

Historically speaking, state courts as well as SCOTUS, typically supports the decisions of the Public Schools regarding "free speech" and "free expression" policies. Go check the legal record for yourself. :shrug:
 
FluffyNinja said:
Point is simply this....Freedom of Speech (and of expression) is not a "be all, end all" concept......it has been and IS routinely limited LEGALLY in many, many cases in this country for obvious reasons...........public schools being one such institution which, for logical reasons......"gets away with" limiting free speech, and thus, free expression.

Historically speaking, state courts as well as SCOTUS, typically supports the decisions of the Public Schools regarding "free speech" and "free expression" policies. Go check the legal record for yourself. :shrug:
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Only in cases where it disrupts school activity, not forcing everyone to say the Pledge does not disrupt school activity.
 
Superfly said:
Should kids be required to recite The Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
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I would prefer they know what the words mean instead of mindless recitation.
 
Your Star said:
Only in cases where it disrupts school activity, not forcing everyone to say the Pledge does not disrupt school activity.
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Really? Perhaps you should look into this issue a bit deeper. The amount of legal "leniency" given to the public schools by state courts as well as SCOTUS might surprise you. And please, don't insult my intelligence by going back and quoting any of the Justices from the "Tinker vs. DesMoines" case...........we all know that times (and the makeup of the court) have changed quite a bit since the uproarious 60's and there have been many challenges to school policies since that time which have been shot down by the courts. :shrug:
 
WI Crippler said:
Absolutely in early formative years. There needs to be an awareness and foundation for having loyalty to your homeland and we should expect that from every child.

I can remember saying it up until 5th grade. I don't recall ever saying it before class in high school. I'm fine with the way I did it growing up. Were any of you scarred as a youth by it? Unable to break free from the brainwashing of your youth? I think not. You all are overselling this "blind patriotism" crap.
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Totally concur bro. I did the same. We never said it after 5th grade. If we stop doing this, the Pledge will go the way of the National Anthem. These are all good things that kids should be taught. It's not about "blind patriatism". Its about being totally aware of the patriotism we should all have. In this age of easy information, I think we are all becoming jaded by the news cycle that portrays our country as so horrible that a lot of us aren't as proud of it as we should be.
Survey: Americans Forget National Anthem - ABC News
 
Superfly said:
Should kids be required to recite The Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
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Encouraged? Yes.

Required? No. No one should be required to pledge anything that is not done freely and voluntarily. That's known as "duress", and an oath made under duress is legally worthless.
 
They made us say the Pledge up to the 6th grade and you know what, I might as well have been reciting the recipe for a cake mix for all it mattered too me. I didn't understand it and I didn't care, it was meaningless, boring gibberish. Now tell me where to get candy and I was all ears.
 
grip said:
They made us say the Pledge up to the 6th grade and you know what, I might as well have been reciting the recipe for a cake mix for all it mattered too me. I didn't understand it and I didn't care, it was meaningless, boring gibberish. Now tell me where to get candy and I was all ears.
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This is true of too many. Makes me wonder why we want it recited.
 
Boo Radley said:
This is true of too many. Makes me wonder why we want it recited.
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We sung "My Country 'Tis Of Thee", America The Beautiful, The National Anthem" and though I remember some of it I didn't care or know what it meant back then. They made me go to church, which was like trying to teach a kid about calculus, simply too mature and complicated in subject matter for a gooney kid. I'd fall asleep 99% of the time.

It didn't brainwash or indoctrinate me it mostly made me think grownups were a little nutty. All I ever wanted to do was play and eat sweets.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Are we now assuming that our constitutional rights were/are meant to be meted out with absolutely no limitations? Bwahahahahahaha......... You guys with your Utopian views of the world just crack me up sometimes. :lol:
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project much?
 
When I was younger, it never meant much to me, but now it means a lot to me, because I understand all the sacrifice our nation's people has gone through Call me a patriot, but I pledge my allegiance to show my patriotism and respect for our great country, no matter how bad people say it is. Like my math teacher said, "It's your own decision, but I stand up and pledge my allegiance for every single soldier serving our country." If you are an American citizen, you should have no problem pledging your allegiance to this country, as for "under God" it doesn't really bother me, say "under sky" if you're really that butthurt about it.
 
rathi said:
Reflexively repeating a slogan without thinking based on childhood indoctrination is the kind of "patriotism" that breeds authoritarians. True patriotism comes not from being coerced or brainwashed into saying you love your country, but choosing it of your own free will. Children should learn to like America because our nation proves itself worthy, not because it is demanded in the classroom.
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Must be why we Catholics like such things? I know American Protestants have a much more democratic spirit than Catholics may, but I find such things useful. It states the creed, unifies people with a common identity and purpose, thus fulfilling one of the main goals of public education. It's rather benevolent, but intellectually it has consequences, especially from the minds of mass democrats.
 
Fiddytree said:
Must be why we Catholics like such things? I know American Protestants have a much more democratic spirit than Catholics may, but I find such things useful. It states the creed, unifies people with a common identity and purpose, thus fulfilling one of the main goals of public education. It's rather benevolent, but intellectually it has consequences, especially from the minds of mass democrats.
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Well at least, shouldn't the teachers explain what we are saying? I mean, it seems to be a common thread here that many of us said it, but had no idea what we are saying. Honestly, when I was a child, I just said it. Didn't have a clue what I was saying, but I said it all the same. As we got older, we didn't have to say it anymore. I still remember it, and one day the kids were mentioning it, and I recited it for them, and it hit me what I was actually saying. It kind of hit me, "Holy smokes, this is kind of like indoctrination, and we had no idea."
 
Many do explain what it means-it just doesn't mean all do or really that the student may necessarily remember. If a student doesn't remember much of the outer context, that is okay as well. It still serves a unification purpose even if much of it is not given to the students. They gain the sense that we are in the US, we are believe in a unified set of principles, even if I do not know what those quite are and how they work yet. It also serves a useful pedagogical tool to unify the class, break them out of their chatter or morning sleepiness.

I know indoctrination is a naughty word, but it isn't all bad. We do it all the time through social custom. In political terms, we currently beat people senseless with the notion that democracy, almost wherever and whenever it can be employed, is a virtue. This is just another benevolent form of it such indoctrination.
 
It shouldn't be forced, considering that foreign children go to public schools, and certain religions (Jehovah's Witnesses) forbid swearing allegiance to a country. People should come to patriotism on their own.
 
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