View Poll Results: Should kids be required to recite The Pledge of Allegiance?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    14 29.17%
  • No

    34 70.83%
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 62

Thread: The Pledge of Allegiance

  1. #51
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,775

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    Absolutely not. What's the point of forcing children to declare their allegiance to a nation they had no choice but to be a part of?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  2. #52
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Many do explain what it means-it just doesn't mean all do or really that the student may necessarily remember. If a student doesn't remember much of the outer context, that is okay as well. It still serves a unification purpose even if much of it is not given to the students. They gain the sense that we are in the US, we are believe in a unified set of principles, even if I do not know what those quite are and how they work yet. It also serves a useful pedagogical tool to unify the class, break them out of their chatter or morning sleepiness.

    I know indoctrination is a naughty word, but it isn't all bad. We do it all the time through social custom. In political terms, we currently beat people senseless with the notion that democracy, almost wherever and whenever it can be employed, is a virtue. This is just another benevolent form of it such indoctrination.
    The pledge of allegiance is hardly a unifying statement of values. Jehova's witnesses consider pledging allegiance to a flag idolatry and atheists reject the "under god" line. It was created by a Christian Socialist who didn't believe in universal suffrage was modified in 1954 expressly to marginalize atheism and communism.

    If you want to promote democratic principles to school children, recite the bill of rights. Its far more inclusive and actually teaches the kids something useful.

  3. #53
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last Seen
    12-30-12 @ 09:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Should kids be required to recite The Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
    Your answer depends on your opinion on the state of nationalism. The flag stands for something, they should. 'Under GOD' is for nitpickers to booger over. It;s irrelevant, really.

  4. #54
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,690

    The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The pledge of allegiance is hardly a unifying statement of values. Jehova's witnesses consider pledging allegiance to a flag idolatry and atheists reject the "under god" line. It was created by a Christian Socialist who didn't believe in universal suffrage was modified in 1954 expressly to marginalize atheism and communism.

    If you want to promote democratic principles to school children, recite the bill of rights. Its far more inclusive and actually teaches the kids something useful.
    I don't understand why you picked a group which considers itself separate from the Nation-State as a reason not to use the pledge. In addition, they refrain from public politics and military service. You essentially picked the least likely group to feel any semblance of National identity (with any Nation) in order to somehow suggest the pledge isn't a unification device. This does not really explain how the pledge doesn't work so much as explain that with certain groups, they will feel no identity or loyalty to the State, ever.

    Yes, a socialist created the pledge. Many times socialists have good ideas, however frequently I think they live on a different ideological universe. The words "under God" can be argued against, though I am not passionate either way.

    I would rather teach them republican virtues, but teaching them the Bill of Rights is certainly admirable. One need not remove the pledge in order to accomplish that.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 12-30-12 at 04:46 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #55
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,567

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I don't understand why you picked a group which considers itself separate from the State as a reason not to use the pledge. In addition, they refrain from public politics and military service. You essentially picked the least likely group to feel any semblance of National identity (with any Nation) in order to somehow suggest the pledge isn't a unification device. This does not really explain how the pledge doesn't work so much as explain that with certain groups, they will feel no identity or loyalty to the State, ever.

    Yes, a socialist created the pledge. Many times socialists have good ideas, however frequently I think we live on different ideological universes. The words "under God" can be argued against, though I am not passionate either way.

    I would rather teach them republican virtues, but teaching them the Bill of Rights is certainly admirable. One need not remove the pledge in order to accomplish that.
    Come on, we atheists aren't that bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #56
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I don't understand why you picked a group which considers itself separate from the State as a reason not to use the pledge. In addition, they refrain from public politics and military service. You essentially picked the least likely group to feel any semblance of National identity (with any Nation) in order to somehow suggest the pledge isn't a unification device.

    Yes, a socialist created the pledge. Many times socialists have good ideas. The words "under God" can be argued against, though I am not passionate either way.

    I would rather teach them republican virtues, but teaching them the Bill of Rights is certainly admirable. One need not remove the pledge in order to accomplish that.
    Considering that the pledge violates the 1st amendment from numerous angles, continuing the practice would be sending mixed messages regarding the bills of rights. "With liberty and justice for all except for minority religious groups and non-believers".

  7. #57
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,690

    The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Come on, we atheists aren't that bad.
    They usually are not bad.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  8. #58
    Anti political parties
    FreedomFromAll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Mexico USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,041

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Well at least, shouldn't the teachers explain what we are saying? I mean, it seems to be a common thread here that many of us said it, but had no idea what we are saying. Honestly, when I was a child, I just said it. Didn't have a clue what I was saying, but I said it all the same. As we got older, we didn't have to say it anymore. I still remember it, and one day the kids were mentioning it, and I recited it for them, and it hit me what I was actually saying. It kind of hit me, "Holy smokes, this is kind of like indoctrination, and we had no idea."
    They explained it but you probably were not listening.

  9. #59
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    okla-freakin-homa
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,620

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    If our nation is so divided and some think the Pledge is a unifier then by all means let's use it!

    But let's use the 'conservative' system for fixing things. Lets trickle this one down.

    Every morning a different 6th grader from around our Grand Republic brings the flag infront of the House and Senate so our 'national' leaders can recite the Pledge. The entire White House takes a moment to recite the Pledge and every corporation with overseas or DoD connection is lead, via video screen, by their CEO or his stand in if on vacation.

    A kinder, gentler reminder to those who help guide the nation.

    I don't think the Pledge changes a child's mind much. Many of the kids I said the Pledge with didn't see Service as part of a Citizen's duty. Many who claim it gave them a sense of patriotism are now a days very partisan in their idea of what our Republic should be, and highly resentful so many others don't agree.

    It is at best a feel good nod to the Republic that is seen as an affront to some, with indifference by many.

  10. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last Seen
    12-30-12 @ 09:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13

    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance

    if our nation has the means and resources to provide for the betterment of life on earth then we should say the pledge if it is our goal as a political unit.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •