View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #701
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually not only do they have the option of quitting, they do so fairly often. As I think I've pointed out to you two or three times now: one-third of US workers plan on quitting this year ALONE.
    And I pointed out that that many new jobs will not be created and/or vacated, which just goes to show our expectations of reality seldom intersect it. But, hey, everyone needs hope. If 30,000,000 people think they can find a better job next year, more power to them. We'll ignore the simple fact that 30,000,000 new jobs (incl. retirements) will not happen. Moving from burger flipper I at McD's to burger flipper I at BK really isn't a step up.

    I'm one of them. I will be leaving my current employer and (surprise) increasing my income by between 50-100%.
    Toot! toot!

    If you conned someone into paying you twice as much for doing the same job then Congrats!

    My bet is, it's not the same job. And I wonder where the guy that used to fill this new position went? But, hey, maybe you managed to land one of the possibly 5,000,000 new jobs that will be created/vacated by retirement next year. Of course, that still leaves 25,000,000 people from your poll with shattered dreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No you don't. You have this industrial - era notion of labor immobility that is completely unconnected to the modern workforce.
    Shall I look up the income mobility numbers for the US for you - again?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-26-13 at 10:14 AM.
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  2. #702
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Most workers don't really have the option of quitting, either, and it doesn't do a bit of good to work "over there" when it's the same BS that's over here, as it usually is. Burger flippers at McD's have the same job, pay, and work environment as the burger flippers at BK - and most jobs are this way.
    Sure they do. They can walk up to their boss and give their 2-week notice any time they want. They are not being forced to work there. The guy flipping burgers at BK can go flip burgers at McDonalds if they want, assuming McDonalds is willing to hire them. The reality is, in a free market, certain skillsets are worth a certain amount of money. If you want to make more money, you need to improve your skillset. Why do you think people should get more money just because they want it, not because they deserve it?

    And why shouldn't I use common terms like that? Some people routinely talks about an "employment contract", which is complete crap, too. Joe uses his time and money to go to an employer (notice it's always on the employer's turf, never even neutral ground?) then gets hired as a mechanic - a job he likes and has done before - and everything is fine for two years. Then one day The Boss decides he needs four coffees for a meeting he's having so he tells Joe to go fetch them for him from Starbucks. Joe wasn't hired as a go-for, he was hired as a mechanic. Why should he be obliged to all-of-a-sudden become a go-for? Because if he doesn't, if he just tells his boss to shove it because that wasn't what he was hired to do, the boss fires him and his two years of employment can't even be used as a reference, thereby making Joe less marketable. Joe has no real choice but to fetch coffee, even if he hands in his two-weeks notice afterward. And you'll also note employers routinely expect two week's notice - but if a company decides to lay someone off they often get a notice late Friday afternoon to not come to work on Monday.
    There is no neutral ground, the employee is *ALWAYS* inferior to the employer. Deal with it. You keep acting like they're equivalent and they're not.
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  3. #703
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is no neutral ground, the employee is *ALWAYS* inferior to the employer. Deal with it. You keep acting like they're equivalent and they're not.
    Thank you for making the point as to why employees need an equalizer.

  4. #704
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Thank you for making the point as to why employees need an equalizer.
    No, they just need to deal with reality.
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  5. #705
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, they just need to deal with reality.
    They? See, it's attitudes like your's that convince me that there is still a need for unions. Your attitude is like "eff my employees." You couldn't give a crap about them, and it's quite obvious. They need protection from employers with attitudes like this.

  6. #706
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    They? See, it's attitudes like your's that convince me that there is still a need for unions. Your attitude is like "eff my employees." You couldn't give a crap about them, and it's quite obvious. They need protection from employers with attitudes like this.
    I was one of them, years ago. Then I moved up the chain of command. I have no respect for people who sit on their thumbs for their entire lives and never better themselves, which is what you seem to support. You seem to think that people deserve to get more because they're breathing, not because they've earned it.
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  7. #707
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure they do. They can walk up to their boss and give their 2-week notice any time they want. They are not being forced to work there. The guy flipping burgers at BK can go flip burgers at McDonalds if they want, assuming McDonalds is willing to hire them. The reality is, in a free market, certain skillsets are worth a certain amount of money. If you want to make more money, you need to improve your skillset. Why do you think people should get more money just because they want it, not because they deserve it?
    Yep - well aware of the situation. I moved up the ladder in surveying over a 25 year career (incl college courses while working full time) until I got to the point I'd have to give up the field and play office politics, which I turned down. All I ever expected was to be treated honestly and respectfully, which is why I stayed with the same employer for decades. But I spent a decade out of HS doing everything in the world and probably averaged over a job a year, so I'm not naive about the workplace, either.

    Yes, I agree about skill sets, how could I not given my career? And I do think people should get a raise when they increase their skill set, which most do just by doing their job and trying to make it better. The only other "raise" should be from inflation because, most likely, the product price increases for inflation, too, just as everything else does. No reason to pay the worker less this year than he was paid last year when, in fact, he's probably gotten better at his job.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is no neutral ground, the employee is *ALWAYS* inferior to the employer. Deal with it. You keep acting like they're equivalent and they're not.
    Exactly the point we've been trying to make and the point so many other anti-union people have tried to refute. I'm glad one of you sees the situation as it truly is.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #708
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Exactly the point we've been trying to make and the point so many other anti-union people have tried to refute. I'm glad one of you sees the situation as it truly is.
    Yes, I see it as it is, and as it ought to be. You seem to dislike reality.
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  9. #709
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yes, I see it as it is, and as it ought to be. You seem to dislike reality.
    If you mean I think the world could be a better place, then you're right, I dislike reality. That doesn't change my ability to see it like it is.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-26-13 at 09:42 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #710
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If you mean I think the world could be a better place, then you're right, I dislike reality. That doesn't change my ability to see it like it is.
    I think it's perfectly fine the way it is, people need to accept their place in the world and if they don't like where they are, improve their place, don't try to change the whole system. The American way of life is based on bettering yourself, not on bringing the whole system down to your level.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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