View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #581
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Let's just make ALL industry union. I mean, if it's fair for one group, why not for all? I wanna see a few farm hand unions, armed forces unions, heck, even political leader unions.


    Why not, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I never said a thing about ownership. Only that unions view its workers exactly the same as the company does. A means to an end.
    I disagree.
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Mazdas and Suzukis, plus the Corolla and Tacoma. Not what I'd call the most expensive. I wonder why those two Toyota models are exceptions?
    The Taco is the most expensive small to mid pickup you can buy. And the corolla is an economy car that costs more than a base mustang. So yeah, they ARE the most expensive in their class. As for why? No idea.


    That list also doesn't show it, but some acuras are also union made, along with a couple other hondas.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I disagree.
    We'll have to agree to disagree, then. The only evidence to prove my claim is anecdotal.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  5. #585
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Back that up with references, or a logically sound argument.

    Do union wages affect the non union wages within the same job site or company? Certainly. But from one company to another? One state to another? Basic economics denies this, as does simple logic.
    One company to another is obvious. If I can get paid 10% more over there then I'm at least going to try to work over there. If you ignore that basic rule then you may as well give up on economics.

    One state to another depends on many things including cost of living and personal preference. My HS buddy took a promotion but was required to move to Savannah. That happens all the time. Others, like me, don't move because they have too many community attachments, or family, or whatever and like where they are. No reason a worker wouldn't move and join a union - or not! - for the same reason: more pay, better benefits, better location, whatever.

    So, yes, union wages, especially for skilled/specialized labor, will reflect on the whole of that industry even across state lines and certainly across a small economic region like a metro.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  6. #586
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The Japanese came in and set up auto assembly plants in America. Those workers are paid near union wages and benefits without there being a union. Why isn't there a union at those Japanese auto plants? Because it's not needed. Too bad other American companies can't learn that lesson.
    Yes, and Germany is highly unionized, yet it's a federal law that union membership can't be used as a condition for employment. Seems like maybe we should see what they're doing instead of crying and trying to make union membership a condition of employment.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Yes, and Germany is highly unionized, yet it's a federal law that union membership can't be used as a condition for employment. Seems like maybe we should see what they're doing instead of crying and trying to make union membership a condition of employment.
    That's a good idea - and don't stop at unions. Make sure you read about the "Works Councils", too.


    http://www.wilmerhale.com/pages/publ...ewsPubId=90463

    I haven't read all of this link - but it looks good ...
    http://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/vi...%20councils%22
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-07-13 at 11:27 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You're giving me a headache.

    Seriously, the union wages set a standard for others.
    Seriously, there is indeed evidence that union-heavy states do indeed have higher average wages (as we talked about earlier, depending on how you count). There seriously is also evidence that the downside of that is higher unemployment, lower growth, and economic stagnation.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    One company to another is obvious. If I can get paid 10% more over there then I'm at least going to try to work over there. If you ignore that basic rule then you may as well give up on economics.
    Wait. I thought workers were powerless in the face of a race to the bottom from companies? If workers have the ability to go sell their labor to a higher bidder, then your earlier argument that without a union they are stuck with whatever their current boss offers is moot.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Seriously, there is indeed evidence that union-heavy states do indeed have higher average wages (as we talked about earlier, depending on how you count). There seriously is also evidence that the downside of that is higher unemployment, lower growth, and economic stagnation.
    Funny you say that because that is not the case in my state of Massachusetts. Where is your evidence that union-heavy states have higher unemployment? I've looked at a site for the 2012 state unemployment rates by state, and I don't see what you claim as being the case at all.

    State Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July Aug Sept Oct Nov
    Alabama 7.8 7.6 7.3 7.2 7.4 7.8 8.3 8.5 8.3 8.1 7.5
    Alaska 7.2 7.1 7.0 6.9 7.0 7.3 7.7 7.8 7.5 7.1 6.8
    Arizona 8.7 8.7 8.6 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.1 7.8
    Arkansas 7.6 7.6 7.4 7.2 7.3 7.2 7.3 7.3 7.1 7.2 7.0
    California 10.9 10.9 11.0 10.9 10.8 10.7 10.7 10.6 10.2 10.1 9.8
    Colorado 7.8 7.8 7.8 7.9 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.2 8.0 7.9 7.7
    Connecticut 8.0 7.8 7.7 7.7 7.8 8.1 8.5 9.0 8.9 9.0 8.8
    Delaware 7.0 7.0 6.9 6.8 6.8 6.7 6.8 6.9 6.8 6.8 6.7
    D.C. 9.9 9.9 9.8 9.5 9.3 9.1 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4
    Florida 9.6 9.4 9.0 8.7 8.6 8.6 8.8 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.1
    Georgia 9.2 9.1 9.0 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.3 9.2 9.0 8.7 8.5
    Hawaii 6.5 6.4 6.4 6.3 6.3 6.4 6.4 6.1 5.7 5.5 5.3
    Idaho 8.1 8.0 7.9 7.7 7.8 7.7 7.5 7.4 7.1 7.0 6.8
    Illinois 9.4 9.1 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.7 8.9 9.1 8.8 8.8 8.7
    Indiana 8.7 8.4 8.2 7.9 7.9 8.0 8.2 8.3 8.2 8.0 8.0
    Iowa 5.4 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.5 5.2 5.1 4.9
    Kansas 6.1 6.1 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.1 6.3 6.2 5.9 5.7 5.4
    Kentucky 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.3 8.5 8.4 8.4 8.2
    Louisiana 6.9 7.0 7.1 7.1 7.2 7.5 7.6 7.4 7.0 6.6 5.8
    Maine 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.2 7.4 7.5 7.6 7.6 7.6 7.4 7.2
    Maryland 6.5 6.5 6.6 6.7 6.8 6.9 7.0 7.1 6.9 6.7 6.6
    Massachusetts 6.9 6.9 6.5 6.3 6.0 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.5 6.6 6.6
    Michigan 9.0 8.8 8.5 8.3 8.5 8.6 9.0 9.4 9.3 9.1 8.9
    Minnesota 5.6 5.7 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.7
    Mississippi 9.9 9.5 9.0 8.7 8.7 8.8 9.1 9.1 9.2 8.9 8.5
    Missouri 7.5 7.4 7.4 7.3 7.3 7.1 7.2 7.2 6.9 6.9 6.7
    Montana 6.5 6.2 6.2 6.1 6.3 6.3 6.4 6.3 6.1 6.0 5.8
    Nebraska 4.0 4.0 4.0 3.9 3.9 3.8 4.0 4.0 3.9 3.8 3.7
    Nevada 12.7 12.3 12.0 11.7 11.6 11.6 12.0 12.1 11.8 11.5 10.8
    New Hampshire 5.2 5.2 5.2 5.0 5.0 5.1 5.4 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.6
    New Jersey 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.6 9.8 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.6
    New Mexico 7.0 7.2 7.2 6.9 6.7 6.5 6.6 6.5 6.4 6.3 6.2
    New York 8.3 8.5 8.5 8.5 8.6 8.9 9.1 9.1 8.9 8.7 8.3
    North Carolina 10.2 9.9 9.7 9.4 9.4 9.4 9.6 9.7 9.6 9.3 9.1
    North Dakota 3.2 3.1 3.0 3.0 3.0 2.9 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.1 3.1
    Ohio 7.7 7.6 7.5 7.4 7.3 7.2 7.2 7.2 7.0 6.9 6.8
    Oklahoma 6.1 6.0 5.4 5.0 4.8 4.7 4.9 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.2
    Oregon 8.8 8.8 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.5 8.7 8.9 8.7 8.6 8.4
    Pennsylvania 7.6 7.6 7.5 7.4 7.4 7.5 7.9 8.1 8.2 8.1 7.8
    Puerto Rico 15.1 15.0 15.0 14.8 14.2 13.8 13.7 13.5 13.6 13.8 13.8
    Rhode Island 10.9 11.0 11.1 11.2 11.0 10.9 10.8 10.7 10.5 10.4 10.4
    South Carolina 9.3 9.1 8.9 8.8 9.1 9.4 9.6 9.6 9.1 8.6 8.3
    South Dakota 4.2 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4
    Tennessee 8.2 8.0 7.9 7.8 7.9 8.1 8.4 8.5 8.3 8.2 7.6
    Texas 7.3 7.1 7.0 6.9 6.9 7.0 7.2 7.1 6.8 6.6 6.2
    Utah 5.7 5.7 5.8 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 5.8 5.4 5.2 5.1
    Vermont 5.0 4.9 4.8 4.6 4.6 4.7 5.0 5.3 5.4 5.5 5.2
    Virginia 5.8 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.7 5.6
    Washington 8.3 8.2 8.3 8.1 8.3 8.3 8.5 8.6 8.5 8.2 7.8
    West Virginia 7.4 7.2 6.9 6.7 6.9 7.0 7.4 7.5 7.6 7.5 7.3
    Wisconsin 6.9 6.9 6.8 6.7 6.8 7.0 7.3 7.5 7.3 6.9 6.7
    Wyoming 5.5 5.4 5.3 5.3 5.2 5.4 5.6 5.7 5.4 5.2 5.1
    Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics

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