View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #561
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Are you suggesting that withou unions, those wages at Toyota and Honda would be lower? That's a pretty bold claim to make without providing a single scrap of reference to support it.
    I think so. Union wages make it so that other companies have to be competitive with their wages and benefits. That isn't so far fetched or hard to believe.

    Also, I recall a time in the 80s, when those cara broke into our market...because they were so much cheaper than cars made in the US, without a sacrifice in quality. Then, we started building US cars in Mexico, and Japanese cars in the US. And last I checked, toyotas cost more than Chevys, and chevy has had fewer recalls in the last couple years, sans the issues with the Volt, the super car savior of the world. Go figure, eh?
    I don't see what that has to do with the unions.

  2. #562
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Not at all. What I'm suggesting is that if workers were actually paid what they're worth to the company (instead of their market value) and treated like people (instead of being just a line on the ledger like sheet steel or brake pads) there would be no need for unions. Things like unions don't form in a vacuum, they form from a need in society. If there is no need then, eventually, the unions would fade away on their own.
    So why the comment? I mean, it read to me like you were saying that Japanese auto workers get paid what they do because, thanks to unions, other auto workers get paid that...

    But now you've dropped another egg, lol. Are you now suggesting that WORKERS are seen as ANYTHING more than a potential resource to be exploited by the union? You realize that unions are businesses, for profit, right? You honestly think that union leadership sees their members as names, and numbers on a page, meaningless beyond the union income they represent?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  3. #563
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think so. Union wages make it so that other companies have to be competitive with their wages and benefits. That isn't so far fetched or hard to believe.
    This is true and it's the reason unions tend to demand non-union workers pay some (usually less than member) union dues, because they also benefit from union negotiations. I've never seen an entity that has a pay scale for union members and one for non-union members. Everyone gets paid the same - what the union has negotiated.
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    This is true and it's the reason unions tend to demand non-union workers pay some (usually less than member) union dues, because they also benefit from union negotiations. I've never seen an entity that has a pay scale for union members and one for non-union members. Everyone gets paid the same - what the union has negotiated.
    AKA prevailing wage.

  5. #565
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    AKA prevailing wage.
    Hmmm.....


    If 10 men in state A all earn $10 an hour

    And 10 men in state B have seven who earn $13 an hour, but three who are unemployed (and therefore earn $0 an hour)


    Which state has the higher average wage?

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Hmmm.....


    If 10 men in state A all earn $10 an hour

    And 10 men in state B have seven who earn $13 an hour, but three who are unemployed (and therefore earn $0 an hour)


    Which state has the higher average wage?
    It's too early for silly word problems cpwill. I hate math!

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1061328085]

    I think so. Union wages make it so that other companies have to be competitive with their wages and benefits. That isn't so far fetched or hard to believe.



    I don't see what that has to do with the unions.
    On my iPhone, so can't parse this correctly...but anyway...

    That IS a pretty far fetched idea to believe. It ignores a principle characteristic of unions...which is to say...in a union shop, it's join the union, or don't work there. It also ignores another principle...when an employer doesn't need new help...they don't hire new help. This makes getting employment at union shops next to impossible. Hard to fire folks in unions, regardless of their performance...and all the workers there are union, by force...so yeah, on average, not a lot of openings...and when they do come, they go to family members, or friends. For those outside that circle? Forget it. They have to get employment elsewhere, and if they build cars, that means the non union Toyota shops and such. And that's if the two shops are close to each other. I mean, to believe as you do, then you must also believe that these sAme workers are willing and able to relocate in order to get the union job, over the non.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    [QUOTE=KevinKohler;1061328113][QUOTE=ChrisL;1061328085]On my iPhone, so can't parse this correctly...but anyway...

    That IS a pretty far fetched idea to believe.
    Obviously you don't know anything about a union job site then.

    It ignores a principle characteristic of unions...which is to say...in a union shop, it's join the union, or don't work there.
    Wrong. You can still work there, but you have to pay union dues in MOST cases because you would benefit from any negotiations that the union made with the business.

    It also ignores another principle...when an employer doesn't need new help...they don't hire new help.
    Good Lord!

    This makes getting employment at union shops next to impossible. Hard to fire folks in unions, regardless of their performance...and all the workers there are union, by force...so yeah, on average, not a lot of openings...and when they do come, they go to family members, or friends.
    This is such bull crap. All you have to do is pay your initial membership fee, and anyone can be a member.

    For those outside that circle? Forget it. They have to get employment elsewhere, and if they build cars, that means the non union Toyota shops and such. And that's if the two shops are close to each other. I mean, to believe as you do, then you must also believe that these sAme workers are willing and able to relocate in order to get the union job, over the non.
    I find it hard to believe that you know what you're talking about here.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's too early for silly word problems cpwill. I hate math!
    sorry, that was a bit round-a-bout.

    One state has 10 men making 10 dollars apiece - average of $10 an hour.

    But the other state has two ways of counting. Either the 7 men working earn $13 for an average wage of $13 an hour, or only $91 is earned for the same 10 men as in State A who all want jobs, in which case the average wage is $9.10 an hour.

    Depending on how you measure state B (our union state), it will have better or worse wages than State A (our right to work state).



    We all want to make a decent living, and we want that for others to. Those are good instincts, and should be encouraged. Unfortunately, because of that, we tend to be willing to forget that labor exists on a supply/demand curve, and that when you increase the price of labor, you decrease demand for it.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    And I brought up the history of Toyota/Honda/Nissan to make a salient point about the car market in the US, and why Hyundai is the new up and commer. Soon, they will be made in the US, if not already, and its just a matter of time before they, too, cost more than so called domestics to buy.

    There's only one Chevy still being made entirely in the US, and that's the corvette. And the most important parts of that car? Built by non union members, lol.


    And for the record, many Japanese cars made in the US ARE made by union workers.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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