View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #541
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Right, actions speak louder than words.
    Exactly. MOST union members do not do violence. Of course there are bound to be some who do in just about any group.

  2. #542
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1061325002]You posts imply that union members are ALL the same, as if union members aren't individual people.

    That is incorrect, you are choosing (willfully or not) to erect a strawman. I have family and friends who are union members my assessment of unions is of them as a means of organization and of them as organizations.

    See? Here you go again, talking about them as if they are not individuals capable of their own thoughts.
    No, what I said was:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    most people do not seek that [a contentious relationship with an employer], that is correct. It is simply in the best interest of unions to make sure that they find it nontheless.
    You see, if the workers in Local United 437 all think that they are roughly fairly rewarded for their labor, pretty much like their bosses, and get along fairly well with each other and with management, then they start asking questions. Questions like "Why am I sending X% of my paycheck every month to a union which, as near as I can tell, is not of corresponding benefit to me?". Unions thus have a strong incentive to ensure that workers do not think that they are fairly rewarded for labor and that they do not have good and trusting relationships with management. Because "Unions" =/= "All Workers Who Are Members Of Unions". Many of those members themselves feel that they are coerced. That's why so many public employees stop paying dues when they are given the freedom to choose for themselves.

    Sounds like you're describing most CEOs.
    it would not surprise me in the least to find that CEO's and Union leadership are very alike indeed.

    You are wrong about unions. In the LIUNA union, they discourage their workers from being lazy. Those guys give the whole union a bad name, and they hate those kinds of guys. Those are the guys who are passed over for good jobs. They are NEVER rewarded for being lazy.
    Nor is it simple to fire them for it. Protection of the lazy, the incompetent, and the evil is, after all, simply part of making sure that "the workers interests are represented first". And yes, the unions absolutely foster a sense of entitlement - that is how you keep people convinced that They Always Deserve More And Evil Management Is Greedily Keeping It From Them.

    The union tries to prevent this from occurring in the first place. This way poorer employees don't have to spend all of their money in legal battles against a legal monstrosity such as a huge corporation with multiple corporate lawyers.
    Unions aren't needed to enforce contract law. We have a justice system for that, and if something is spelled out in the contract, then the company is screwed. I know more than a couple of lawyers who would love to make the easy money that could come from a case like that.

  3. #543
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Unions aren't needed to enforce contract law. We have a justice system for that, and if something is spelled out in the contract, then the company is screwed. I know more than a couple of lawyers who would love to make the easy money that could come from a case like that.
    What contract? The one that says the company has all the power and the worker has none?


    As for the "I've got friends in a union" - I must assume from your other comments those friends are lazy bastards that should be living on the street instead of taking up space that a "good" (read lower paid) worker should have. Frankly, I'm surprised you'd hang around with people like that.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-06-13 at 11:09 PM.
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  4. #544
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What contract? The one that says the company has all the power and the worker has none?
    I'm unaware of that contract. Could you cite it for me?

    As for the "I've got friends in a union" - I must assume from your other comments those friends are lazy bastards that should be living on the street instead of taking up space that a "good" (read lower paid) worker should have. Frankly, I'm surprised you'd hang around with people like that.
    you know, you can always tell someone is losing a debate when they are forced to turn to ad hominem.

  5. #545
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'm unaware of that contract. Could you cite it for me?
    Well that's the point, isn't it? Without unions there is no contract - except the one CEO's and their ilk get.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you know, you can always tell someone is losing a debate when they are forced to turn to ad hominem.
    ad hominem --- like unjustly accusing someone of ad hominem??? LOL!

    I'm sorry if you took the observation that you would hang out with lazy, entitled workers as a personal attack but it obviously wasn't. And you brought the subject up in the first place, not me. (BTW - how did that relate to the argument? Sounded similar to: "Some of my best friends are black!" when seen in racist arguments. LOL!) The poor references to union members simply paraphrase what you've already posted. I don't see a personal attack there, either. Do you have a confidence problem or something?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-07-13 at 12:17 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #546
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Hey! I got 2 likes from the same person for this post. How did you do that MoSurveyor?
    NO clue. The board hiccuped about that time so I submitted again. (I guess that's why we're always told not to submit again when making CC transactions!) Oddly enough, the strip under that post shows "You and [ARG:2 UNDEFINED] like this." on my computer - but on my user page it comes up as me Liking it twice at the same time - very strange.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-07-13 at 12:19 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #547
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Well that's the point, isn't it? Without unions there is no contract - except the one CEO's and their ilk get.

    ad hominem --- like unjustly accusing someone of ad hominem??? LOL!

    I'm sorry if you took the observation that you would hang out with lazy, entitled workers as a personal attack but it obviously wasn't. And you brought the subject up in the first place, not me. (BTW - how did that relate to the argument? Sounded similar to: "Some of my best friends are black!" when seen in racist arguments. LOL!) The poor references to union members simply paraphrase what you've already posted. I don't see a personal attack there, either. Do you have a confidence problem or something?
    You know what? Never mind.

  8. #548
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You know what? Never mind.
    My response ...
    you know, you can always tell someone is losing a debate when they are forced to turn to ad hominem.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-07-13 at 07:45 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #549
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Sounded similar to: "Some of my best friends are black!" when seen in racist arguments. LOL!)
    yeah you run with that.

  10. #550
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You know what? Never mind.
    You can't reason with these people. They think we're trying to ban unions, which is ridiculous. Personally the only issue I have with it is that it can be made mandatory. People should certainly be able to associate with and pay who they please. They still have failed over and over and over again to give a real reason why something as awesome as they describe it is must be mandatory. Nothing says confidence in your ideals like making it compulsory.

    Then there's always the "Well you can just go find another job in your completely unionized career field." BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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