View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #531
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    cpwill's Avatar
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No more so than the businesses they work for.
    That is incorrect. Businesses (in this country, at least) are built around mutually beneficial trade in which all parties concerned are left free to act as they please devoid of coercion.

  2. #532
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The job belongs to the business. An apples to apples comparison would be if a business were to tell an employee "we will pay you this and you will take it or we will get all the other employers to put you on a blacklist and no one will hire you".
    Really? First time I've seen an owner pay someone to take their property. You seem to have a very poor understanding of business.

    And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if labor organizers, those trying to form a labor union, aren't treated just that way. I'm sure many have been blacklisted over the years - deemed "trouble-makers", no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect, the mill can go to another mine. The only way that the comparison is apt is if that particular mine is a monopoly, the way a union is.
    The mill can also attempt to find other skilled workers to run the furnace. If they can't, who's fault is that since the mill entered into previous union contracts voluntarily? What you're essentially crying about is guilds (unions) having power over companies somewhat equal to the power a company has over them. Boo-hoo.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-06-13 at 05:04 AM.
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  3. #533
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    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The mill can also attempt to find other skilled workers to run the furnace. If they can't, who's fault is that since the mill entered into previous union contracts voluntarily? What you're essentially crying about is guilds (unions) having power over companies somewhat equal to the power a company has over them. Boo-hoo.
    Not quite. Unions have even more power over workers than they have on the company. The unions can tie outrageously high union dues to employment, which is something required for their very livelihood. It is almost impossible in non-right to work states to get a job in certain career fields without having to join a union.

    The fact that unions can force membership dues on someone is despicable. There is nothing about "negotiating collectively with an employer" that costs thousands of dollars a year per employee. The money is really primarily used to play politics and line people's pockets.

    A union can work without making membership dues compulsory, we have many, many examples of this around the world. Our unions are just too lazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #534
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Not quite. Unions have even more power over workers than they have on the company. The unions can tie outrageously high union dues to employment, which is something required for their very livelihood. It is almost impossible in non-right to work states to get a job in certain career fields without having to join a union.
    Just as employers can tie outrageously low wages to employment. I fail to see the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    The fact that unions can force membership dues on someone is despicable. There is nothing about "negotiating collectively with an employer" that costs thousands of dollars a year per employee. The money is really primarily used to play politics and line people's pockets.
    Just as businesses play politics for their own reasons - to give them more power over their workers by restricting or eliminating a worker's options and politically influencing labor laws. And, yes, the owners are "lining their pockets" - the lower the wages the more lining they have. Again, I fail to see the difference between unions and companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    A union can work without making membership dues compulsory, we have many, many examples of this around the world. Our unions are just too lazy.
    Then they're relying on volunteer labor, which is still a cost to the workers even if it's not monetary. Still no joy for you - sorry.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  5. #535
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    [QUOTE=cpwill;1061324657]
    Naturally. Who said otherwise? Or is it your opinion that one cannot take money and power through coercion or the threat thereof?
    You posts imply that union members are ALL the same, as if union members aren't individual people.



    most people do not seek that, that is correct. It is simply in the best interest of unions to make sure that they find it nontheless.
    See? Here you go again, talking about them as if they are not individuals capable of their own thoughts.


    It is a sense of entitlement to think that you deserve a set of benefits and income level Simply For Being Wonderful You, rather than for deserving it by earning it in a competitive manner. No one else owes you a "living" or any other kind of wage simply for showing up. Unions are famous for fostering precisely that first mindset - it is no little part of what destroyed the American auto industry.
    Sounds like you're describing most CEOs. Most union employees are simply tired of being underpaid and under appreciated. After all, without employees, there would be no business, so yes the employees who show up to work are wonderful.

    You are wrong about unions. In the LIUNA union, they discourage their workers from being lazy. Those guys give the whole union a bad name, and they hate those kinds of guys. Those are the guys who are passed over for good jobs. They are NEVER rewarded for being lazy. Just because some lazy people exist in unions, that does NOT mean that you can categorize an entire union based on those few.


    If the employer breaks a contract, we have a legal system designed for that. Strikes are usually designed to force an employer to alter compensation, not live up to current contractual compensation. Strikes are and remain coercive in nature.
    The union tries to prevent this from occurring in the first place. This way poorer employees don't have to spend all of their money in legal battles against a legal monstrosity such as a huge corporation with multiple corporate lawyers.

  6. #536
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    I think a lot of people don't like unions because they are a great equalizer between employers and employees. Some people just don't want employees to have ANY power over their circumstances at all for some reason. I wonder if some people actually DESIRE to have class poverty. It's not like union employees are making anywhere NEAR the pay of CEOs, so all of this bitching is for naught.

  7. #537
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think a lot of people don't like unions because they are a great equalizer between employers and employees. Some people just don't want employees to have ANY power over their circumstances at all for some reason. I wonder if some people actually DESIRE to have class poverty. It's not like union employees are making anywhere NEAR the pay of CEOs, so all of this bitching is for naught.
    Hey! I got 2 likes from the same person for this post. How did you do that MoSurveyor?

  8. #538
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think a lot of people don't like unions because they are a great equalizer between employers and employees. Some people just don't want employees to have ANY power over their circumstances at all for some reason. I wonder if some people actually DESIRE to have class poverty. It's not like union employees are making anywhere NEAR the pay of CEOs, so all of this bitching is for naught.
    Perfomance driven people have as much power as any union employee because they contribute to the bottom line.

    People that can fog a water glass by breathing on it are what unions represent as a whole.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Perfomance driven people have as much power as any union employee because they contribute to the bottom line.

    People that can fog a water glass by breathing on it are what unions represent as a whole.
    That's your opinion, and it's not really surprising. You want to lump all the people who are union members as if they are all the same. Whatever dude. I know for a fact that you are wrong. There are many, many non-violent, hard-working union members who take as much pride in their work as anyone else.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's your opinion, and it's not really surprising. You want to lump all the people who are union members as if they are all the same. Whatever dude. I know for a fact that you are wrong. There are many, many non-violent, hard-working union members who take as much pride in their work as anyone else.
    Right, actions speak louder than words.

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