View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

Voters
82. You may not vote on this poll
  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
Page 53 of 78 FirstFirst ... 343515253545563 ... LastLast
Results 521 to 530 of 773

Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #521
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    My claim is simply that unions are organizations built around coercion, and so that naturally leads to a greater tendency to accept forms of coercion that break the law. The sense of entitlement that many unions foster also leads to higher rates of violence, as it creates cognitive dissonance in instances where the good or service deemed entitled is not provided.
    Sense of entitlement? Why? Because people want good benefits and good wages? Oh, don't forget that the people who utilize unions sign contracts with the unions agreeing to all that is stated within the contract. Where is the coercion? It's called negotiations.

  2. #522
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,081

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Comparable groups? I never mentioned that. I said "you're probably less violent if you belong to a union".
    alright. on an individual basis then, can you demonstrate that?

  3. #523
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,081

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Sense of entitlement? Why?
    Because it is in the interest of the union to do so. Folks who have a naturally contentious relationship with their employers are going to keep paying those union dues, and so unions have a vested interest in ensuring that folks have a naturally contentious relationship with their employer. Hence, it is in their interest to foster a sense of entitlement among their membership.


    Where is the coercion? It's called negotiations.
    It's called a "Strike". Either You Do What We Say Or We Try To Destroy Your Business. In no other set of private negotiation is this allowed. If I wanted to purchase your home, and said that if you didn't lower your price by 10% I was going to keep anyone else from every buying it, you would laugh in my face. But, for some reason, we authorize and defend the practice with the same group of people who are major donors to one of the two chief political parties....

  4. #524
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    My claim is simply that unions are organizations built around coercion ... [snip]
    No more so than the businesses they work for.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #525
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    alright. on an individual basis then, can you demonstrate that?
    Yeah, I'm sure every arrest record has an item that denotes union membership. LOL!

    But logic should tell you it's true. There may be some cases of protests getting out of hand, and I'm sure there are some individuals that have issues they won't seek help for, but overall union members are not underpaid (relative to most people) and they have health care, including some mental heath coverage in most cases. They have fewer reasons to be violent - or even personally know what violence is - than, say, people trained by the military, or people without means to seek medical attention for mental heath problems, or even the poor, frustrated janitor who self-medicates with alcohol and gets in fist fights on Saturday night.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-06-13 at 01:44 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #526
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    [QUOTE=cpwill;1061324593]
    Because it is in the interest of the union to do so. Folks who have a naturally contentious relationship with their employers are going to keep paying those union dues, and so unions have a vested interest in ensuring that folks have a naturally contentious relationship with their employer. Hence, it is in their interest to foster a sense of entitlement among their membership.
    That's bull. People join unions because they want better paychecks, better benefits and protection from their employers taking advantage of them. For MOST people, it has nothing to do with being contentious. Also, it is not a sense of entitlement to want to be treated fairly.

    It's called a "Strike". Either You Do What We Say Or We Try To Destroy Your Business. In no other set of private negotiation is this allowed. If I wanted to purchase your home, and said that if you didn't lower your price by 10% I was going to keep anyone else from every buying it, you would laugh in my face. But, for some reason, we authorize and defend the practice with the same group of people who are major donors to one of the two chief political parties....
    This usually only happens when the employer goes against what was contracted. They have to live up to their end of the bargain, just like with any other contract.

  7. #527
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's called a "Strike". Either You Do What We Say Or We Try To Destroy Your Business. In no other set of private negotiation is this allowed.
    So, when the business says "we'll pay you this, take it or leave it" that's just being nice because the workers shouldn't have the option to leave it? They shouldn't have the option to tell the world how much the business is willing to pay? They shouldn't have the option to protest said "offer"?


    Seems to me like you're supporting the Wage Slave theory after all.
    "You must work for Us and we'll give you the stipend We deem appropriate!" LOL!


    Edit:
    And you're wrong about it not being allowed in any other negotiations. The power in all negotiations is the ability to withhold something your opponent wants or needs. A steel mill is "destroyed" if it can't get metal ore and/or scrap. A retail store is dead if it can't purchase goods wholesale. So when the iron mine refuses to renew the old contract because the want more money for their ore, are they "trying to destroy" the steel mill? According to you, they are.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-06-13 at 02:20 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #528
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,081

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    alright. on an individual basis then, can you demonstrate that?
    Actually, no. We aren't talking about these people as individuals - we are talking about them as unions. So yes, comparable groups is the correct metric.

  9. #529
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,081

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So, when the business says "we'll pay you this, take it or leave it" that's just being nice because the workers shouldn't have the option to leave it?
    The job belongs to the business. An apples to apples comparison would be if a business were to tell an employee "we will pay you this and you will take it or we will get all the other employers to put you on a blacklist and no one will hire you".

    So when the iron mine refuses to renew the old contract because the want more money for their ore, are they "trying to destroy" the steel mill? According to you, they are.
    That is incorrect, the mill can go to another mine. The only way that the comparison is apt is if that particular mine is a monopoly, the way a union is.

  10. #530
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,081

    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's bull. People join unions because they want better paychecks, better benefits and protection from their employers taking advantage of them.
    Naturally. Who said otherwise? Or is it your opinion that one cannot take money and power through coercion or the threat thereof?

    For MOST people, it has nothing to do with being contentious.
    most people do not seek that, that is correct. It is simply in the best interest of unions to make sure that they find it nontheless.

    Also, it is not a sense of entitlement to want to be treated fairly.
    It is a sense of entitlement to think that you deserve a set of benefits and income level Simply For Being Wonderful You, rather than for deserving it by earning it in a competitive manner. No one else owes you a "living" or any other kind of wage simply for showing up. Unions are famous for fostering precisely that first mindset - it is no little part of what destroyed the American auto industry.

    This usually only happens when the employer goes against what was contracted. They have to live up to their end of the bargain, just like with any other contract.
    If the employer breaks a contract, we have a legal system designed for that. Strikes are usually designed to force an employer to alter compensation, not live up to current contractual compensation. Strikes are and remain coercive in nature.

Page 53 of 78 FirstFirst ... 343515253545563 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •