View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #331
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Of course it normally is a requirement of unions regarding contracts.
    Which is crap.
    Free riders don't have to exist, provided that only union members benefit from negotiations.
    But in those negotiations, I'm sure that poison pills are thrown in like, all employees must be paid X dollars and have X benefits.

    So they tend to create the arguments against voluntary association.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    And totally useless as a union, unable to perform any of the general duties that unions typically are expected to perform. If I was not working at Ford, and instead working at Honda being part of a union would serve absolutely no purspose. It would not help negotiate a contract, handle work greviences, be able to organize a strike if it was desired
    What the unions have created is the situation before unions, with strike breakers and such.
    They have unfair legal protections and utilize violence and sabotage, in order to get what they want.

    If you want to have unions, association via a specific employer, must be voluntary.
    Otherwise the union is just a parasitic middle man.
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  2. #332
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which is crap.
    Free riders don't have to exist, provided that only union members benefit from negotiations.
    But in those negotiations, I'm sure that poison pills are thrown in like, all employees must be paid X dollars and have X benefits.

    So they tend to create the arguments against voluntary association.



    What the unions have created is the situation before unions, with strike breakers and such.
    They have unfair legal protections and utilize violence and sabotage, in order to get what they want.

    If you want to have unions, association via a specific employer, must be voluntary.
    Otherwise the union is just a parasitic middle man.
    A parasitic middle man which generally ensures higher pay and higher benifits then comparable non union positions.

    Given a choice between working two companies, one with higher pay and benifits, but requires union membership or a company in a comparable position that pays less and has lower benifits, I know which I would choose

    And it would be a choice I would not have been forced to work at either company, but to work at one (again by choice), I would have to join a union.
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  3. #333
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which is crap.
    Free riders don't have to exist, provided that only union members benefit from negotiations.
    But in those negotiations, I'm sure that poison pills are thrown in like, all employees must be paid X dollars and have X benefits.

    So they tend to create the arguments against voluntary association.

    What the unions have created is the situation before unions, with strike breakers and such.
    They have unfair legal protections and utilize violence and sabotage, in order to get what they want.
    Nothing but unsubstantiated jabber unless of course you can provide a reliable unbiased source

    If you want to have unions, association via a specific employer, must be voluntary.
    Otherwise the union is just a parasitic middle man.
    Wrong the parasite is the person who seeks employment in a company that has a union shop.The members of the union formed and fight for the conditions,wages and benefits then the parasites come in and want to enjoy the fruits of union negotiated contracts.

  4. #334
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It certainly can be, especially if new workers refuse to cross the picket line. Unions are also known to terrorize non-union scab workers. Businesses ought to be able to say, "our contract with your union is over, we're not renewing it, either come to work as a non-union worker or go find another job".
    Why don't businesses just hire all new workers? Could it be that maybe the untrained, untried new hires just would not be able to do the work? so show me with a reliable non biased source where the union workers are terrorizing the new untrained , unskilled workers

  5. #335
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why don't businesses just hire all new workers? Could it be that maybe the untrained, untried new hires just would not be able to do the work? so show me with a reliable non biased source where the union workers are terrorizing the new untrained , unskilled workers
    An electrician is an electrician no matter where they work. Being in a union doesn't make them a better electrician. And speaking of electricians, you can find cases just recently where non-union utility workers were turned away from doing work to help Hurricane Sandy victims because they weren't in the union.

    SEASIDE HEIGHTS, NEW JERSEY (WAFF) -

    The hurricane-ravaged east coast has been receiving north Alabama help, but crews from Huntsville Utilities learned they’ll be doing work in Long Island, New York instead of in New Jersey.

    Crews from Huntsville, as well as Decatur Utilities and Joe Wheeler out of Trinity headed up there this week, but Derrick Moore, one of the Decatur workers, said they were told by crews in New Jersey that they can’t do any work there since they’re not union employees.

    The crews that are in Roanoke, Virginia say they are just watching and waiting even though they originally received a call asking for help from Seaside Heights, New Jersey.

    The crews were told to stand down. In fact, Moore said the crew from Trinity is already headed back home.

    Understandably, Moore said they’re frustrated being told “thanks, but no thanks.”

    At least Huntsville has now found someone who wants their help.
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  6. #336
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    An electrician is an electrician no matter where they work. Being in a union doesn't make them a better electrician. And speaking of electricians, you can find cases just recently where non-union utility workers were turned away from doing work to help Hurricane Sandy victims because they weren't in the union.
    Your wrong an electrician is not an electrician no matter where they work. Would you expect a house electrician to work high voltage, would you want a house electrician working next to you in a bucket truck?

    High voltage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Power lines

    High voltage power lines
    Electrical transmission and distribution lines for electric power always use voltages significantly higher than 50 volts, so contact with or close approach to the line conductors presents a danger of electrocution. Contact with overhead wires is a frequent cause of injury or death. Metal ladders, farm equipment, boat masts, construction machinery, aerial antennas, and similar objects are frequently involved in fatal contact with overhead wires. Digging into a buried cable can also be dangerous to workers at an excavation site. Digging equipment (either hand tools or machine driven) that contacts a buried cable may energize piping or the ground in the area, resulting in electrocution of nearby workers. A fault in a high-voltage transmission line or substation may result in high currents flowing along the surface of the earth, producing an earth potential rise that also presents a danger of electric shock.
    Unauthorized persons climbing on power pylons or electrical apparatus are also frequently the victims of electrocution.[6] At very high transmission voltages even a close approach can be hazardous, since the high voltage may spark across a significant air gap.
    For high-voltage and extra-high-voltage transmission lines, specially trained personnel use so-called "live line" techniques to allow hands-on contact with energized equipment. In this case the worker is electrically connected to the high-voltage line but thoroughly insulated from the earth so that he is at the same electrical potential as that of the line. Since training for such operations is lengthy, and still presents a danger to personnel, only very important transmission lines are subject to maintenance while live. Outside these properly engineered situations, insulation from earth does not guarantee that no current flows to earth—as grounding or arcing to ground can occur in unexpected ways, and high-frequency currents can burn even an ungrounded person. Touching a transmitting antenna is dangerous for this reason, and a high-frequency Tesla Coil can sustain a spark with only one endpoint).
    Protective equipment on high-voltage transmission lines normally prevents formation of an unwanted arc, or ensures that it is quenched within tens of milliseconds. Electrical apparatus that interrupts high-voltage circuits is designed to safely direct the resulting arc so that it dissipates without damage. High voltage circuit breakers often use a blast of high pressure air, a special dielectric gas (such as SF6 under pressure), or immersion in mineral oil to quench the arc when the high voltage circuit is broken.

  7. #337
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Your wrong an electrician is not an electrician no matter where they work. Would you expect a house electrician to work high voltage, would you want a house electrician working next to you in a bucket truck?
    Interesting. Do you have any evidence that the electricians who were turned away were turned away because they lacked the necessary skill sets rather than the fact that they weren't union?

    Specifically this:

    Crews from Huntsville, as well as Decatur Utilities and Joe Wheeler out of Trinity headed up there this week, but Derrick Moore, one of the Decatur workers, said they were told by crews in New Jersey that they can’t do any work there since they’re not union employees.
    Do you have an explanation for that?

  8. #338
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Interesting. Do you have any evidence that the electricians who were turned away were turned away because they lacked the necessary skill sets rather than the fact that they weren't union?

    Specifically this:



    Do you have an explanation for that?
    In the northeast there is very little difference between the unions and the mafia, they are the same

  9. #339
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Do you think those labor and safety laws that you now enjoy would exist without the labor movement?
    Irrelevant. The unions have outlived their purpose, and have been made obsolete by the laws they pushed for in the 30's and 50's.
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  10. #340
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    At the present time, I am a member of the American Federation of Musicians, and when I lived up in Michigan, was a member of the UAW. Didn't like the UAW much. As for the Musicians' Union here in Texas, it is pretty weak, but they have a credit union and other benefits. When I lived up in Michigan, if a club stiffed a band out it's pay, the union had the power to shut down that club until the musicians were paid. In Texas, the union does not have that power. Only got stiffed out of pay once, when I was with the Smith & Hightower Band. Our agent took the club to court, and we finally got our money, but it took 6 months. The club had to pay interest too, but the agent got to keep that. LOL.
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