View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #251
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    To all the union fascists trying to force people to join organizations they don't want to join, then subsequently force them to pay for it, why don't you check out unions in Germany?

    Not only is union participation substantially higher, their unions are strong enough that there is no minimum wage in Germany, yet the average union worker makes more than their American counterparts. For instance, a German auto worker makes about ~$67/hr, while the average American auto worker makes ~$33/hr.

    You know what makes this special? Unions in Germany are 100% voluntary in every aspect. The unions have to strive to represent the people, not force people who don't want to be there.

    Produce a union that people want to join, and they will. Stop ****ing crying and whining about nobody wanting to be in your club, it's YOUR FAULT.
    A thousand times this post is worth liking. People respond to incentives. Including union leadership.

  2. #252
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    I do not mean to be disrespectful but you have no idea of what you are talking about labor is one part of product cost you forgot about quality and worker productivity.
    On the contrary, if you will read above, I have no intention of forgetting these things - they are part of what move workers around on the supply/demand curve, after all. If the quality and productivity of your work his higher than your peers, then demand for you is greater, and so is compensation.

    Unless you happen to work in a job field that is unionized, in which case quality and productivity is unlikely to be rewarded as much as seniority.

    Again the UAW is not responsible for poor management decisions nor are they responsible for product quality or marketing
    Blaming the management for the fact that the UAW was able to cow them is stupefyingly one-sided. It's like blaming the rape victim for not putting up a good enough fight. Yeah, maybe she should have had mace. And maybe UAW shouldn't have decided to loot America's auto industry while the getting was good.

    Foreign auto manufacturers kicked our butts they built a superior product to what was being built in America, better gas mileage, a more advanced better looking and more reliable automobile.
    Yup. American companies repeatedly refused to modernize, as doing so would have Harmed Innocent American Workers. So instead we got the rust belt and modern Detroit.

  3. #253
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    To all the union fascists trying to force people to join organizations they don't want to join, then subsequently force them to pay for it, why don't you check out unions in Germany?

    Not only is union participation substantially higher, their unions are strong enough that there is no minimum wage in Germany, yet the average union worker makes more than their American counterparts. For instance, a German auto worker makes about ~$67/hr, while the average American auto worker makes ~$33/hr.

    You know what makes this special? Unions in Germany are 100% voluntary in every aspect. The unions have to strive to represent the people, not force people who don't want to be there.

    Produce a union that people want to join, and they will. Stop ****ing crying and whining about nobody wanting to be in your club, it's YOUR FAULT.
    The BMW CEO makes $22 million a year. GM's CEO $7.7 million in 2011. (Thought that was very interesting.)

    BMW had 100,000 employees and produced 1.4 million automobiles(2011). BMW - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    GM had 207,000 employees and produced 9 million automobiles that same year. General Motors - GM - Fortune Global 500 Top Companies

    Hmmmm....this is hugely significant. I don't know what's going on here. My WAG would be that accrued pension benefits.

    Seems to me that GM should be actively pursuing the German model....?
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  4. #254
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You know what makes this special? Unions in Germany are 100% voluntary in every aspect. The unions have to strive to represent the people, not force people who don't want to be there.
    I did some looking but can not find anything about that

    Do you have a link? And does that mean that VW has union and non union members working on the floor in the same position?
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  5. #255
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I did some looking but can not find anything about that

    Do you have a link? And does that mean that VW has union and non union members working on the floor in the same position?
    Yeah, the link I provided, page labeled 2, second paragraph. I found it in a lot of other places in my research as well, but they were in German so I figured an English source would be best.

    And yes, VW, as with any German company, may be composed of union or non-union workers. It is a freedom of association right, just as it should be here. You can't force someone to associate with someone anymore than you can force them not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The BMW CEO makes $22 million a year. GM's CEO $7.7 million in 2011. (Thought that was very interesting.)

    BMW had 100,000 employees and produced 1.4 million automobiles(2011). BMW - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    GM had 207,000 employees and produced 9 million automobiles that same year. General Motors - GM - Fortune Global 500 Top Companies

    Hmmmm....this is hugely significant. I don't know what's going on here. My WAG would be that accrued pension benefits.

    Seems to me that GM should be actively pursuing the German model....?
    During my research for this I stumbled across a lot of articles listing the distinct differences that make their unions so much better than ours. The most notable being that they actually try to negotiate with the employers for the better good of both the employees AND the company, instead of just acting like a bunch of thugs trying to shake down their constituents.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 01-01-13 at 11:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #256
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I did some looking but can not find anything about that

    Do you have a link? And does that mean that VW has union and non union members working on the floor in the same position?
    Bold: Why not allow such a thing? If a union is truely for the Working Class as they claim then it shouldn't be a problem. Getting butt sore because a non-union member benefits from unions also is just about greed imo.

    I know that if I had the money, and tried to get a job at a company that was controlled by a union and I was denied that job because I refused to join the union I would fight them. I have a right to associate with who I want and being denied a job because I do not want to associate with a union is a violation of that right.
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  7. #257
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    How self-centered are you that you think you can call "dibs" on a career field, then control it? Sounds like the unions should stop stop being tyrannical, they might actually have people want to join them.

    I'm more than glad to see unions fall and die as long as they carry your pathetic attitude that everybody must be a part of a union or **** off. I'm glad some states now have laws that prevent union coercion on innocent citizens. You're trying to screw workers, not employers. You really disgust me.
    Unions control certain professions for a reason. Unions control professions where if they didn't exist it would be hard to secure the wages and benefits that they do as an individual. Allowing people to choose to work in a union weakens the bargaining bailities of those that do want to work in a union and then they benefit of what the union has done without doing anything for it. There is a reason unions exist.

  8. #258
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Unions control certain professions for a reason. Unions control professions where if they didn't exist it would be hard to secure the wages and benefits that they do as an individual. Allowing people to choose to work in a union weakens the bargaining bailities of those that do want to work in a union and then they benefit of what the union has done without doing anything for it. There is a reason unions exist.
    Well, I guess Germany blows your thesis out of the water then, doesn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  9. #259
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Well, I guess Germany blows your thesis out of the water then, doesn't it?
    I don't know about Germany, I know about here, where unions have a political party to represent the interests of unions.

  10. #260
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    I don't know about Germany, I know about here, where unions have a political party to represent the interests of unions.
    Funny, because I wrote you an entire post explaining about Germany. How they have higher union membership, their workers are paid more, and yet it's all entirely 100% voluntary. Your whole case has been that it just HAS to be mandatory, or it'll die, yet I can show country after country where that simply isn't true. The truth is that the unions need to change to provide something that will actually improve the quality of life of the members. Forcing anybody to join your club is rather fascist of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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