View Poll Results: How many here belong to a union?

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  • I have worked my whole career while in a union

    9 10.98%
  • I belong to one currently

    15 18.29%
  • I have never and would never join one

    34 41.46%
  • I used to be in one but not now

    24 29.27%
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Thread: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

  1. #241
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    I belonged to the decorators union in a right to work state. It really sucked because of the laws here.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I have told many that they are weak when they are afraid to be graded on individual merit.
    LOL Do you really believe the company cares about how well you pick peas? No, they only care about how many peas you pick. So if a pea picker picks peas faster than other pea pickers can pick peas then the company expects every pea picker to pick peas faster.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Nothing anyone could ever say, no facts would alter your opinion. Unions built this country from the ground up and that is why the conservative base starting with Reagan and now with Grover and his tea baggers who continue trying to dismantle the unions. All they have to do is break the back of whats left of organized labor and the rich can continue to plunder the economy of our country until they have it exactly like they want it two classes the rich and the poor. 2014 is coming and the conservatives will finally get their due.
    Here's the real question though: If unions are so great, why does membership have to be mandatory? Shouldn't the workers see how much it benefits them and want to be in a union? Right now we see most people don't want to be in a union. You don't think there's a reason for that?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #244
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Here's the real question though: If unions are so great, why does membership have to be mandatory? Shouldn't the workers see how much it benefits them and want to be in a union? Right now we see most people don't want to be in a union. You don't think there's a reason for that?
    I think you already know the answer to that question. It is political. The more people the union leaders claim to represent the more bargaining chips they have when discussing things over with politicians like mayors of cities, representatives in Congress and senators too...

    This may have already been said> I haven't read the entire thread because I am not particularly interested in unions.

  5. #245
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    I think you already know the answer to that question. It is political. The more people the union leaders claim to represent the more bargaining chips they have when discussing things over with politicians like mayors of cities, representatives in Congress and senators too...

    This may have already been said> I haven't read the entire thread because I am not particularly interested in unions.
    People tend to be very good at doing things that support their best interests. If most people reject unions, it is because it wont benefit them. Some of the union jockies around here are super pissed about that and want the government to force people into joining their club. It's quite pathetic really. They want to use force to benefit themselves at the expense of other workers.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #246
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You don't get the point that the more members you have the more negotiating power you have? And with 93% of all private sector jobs being non-union, how can you possibly claim people have no choice?

    "Without unions, it's a cakewalk for Corporate America. Corporations are not only worshiped by the U.S. Congress, but virtually every industry in the country -- from bottle cap manufacturers, to cauliflower growers, to guided missile makers -- has lobbyists representing their interests.

    What do working men and women have in the way of lobbyists? Other than unions, nothing. Other than unions, no one. Indeed, even with unions, they usually find themselves out-manned, out-spent, and out-gunned, which is why the accusations of unions being "too powerful" are so ludicrous. People have said to me with a straight face, "Unions were necessary long time ago, but now they've gotten too powerful."

    Really? Too powerful? Here's a stunning fact: Only about 7 percent of all private sector jobs are unionized. Consider that figure. Seven percent!! That means that 93 percent of all private sector jobs in the United States are non-union. "


    David Macaray: A Country Without Labor Unions
    And yet unions make it into the top 10 in donations despite thier small number. For being so small they sure do have a lot of clout.

    And yes, if you live in a union state and don't have the money to move people are forced to join a union if they want to pursue thier chosen profession.
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  7. #247
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I worked for the telephone company for about six months -- IBEW union. I resented the dues. Offered to work when the workers struck. By contract, I couldn't. I was pissed as hell. I never liked what they stood for -- which, as I saw it, was keeping everyone mediocre and stifling ingenuity.
    I don't know about American Unions, but the UK aim is to keep as many members as possible employed. The buzz word in UK industry is 'efficiency'. What it really means, is cut numbers, and load up the remaining workers with those tasks that still need doing. The Union should be for worker rights, and the maintaining of those rights. I have had many a battle with management over rights issues.

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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
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    To all the union fascists trying to force people to join organizations they don't want to join, then subsequently force them to pay for it, why don't you check out unions in Germany?

    Not only is union participation substantially higher, their unions are strong enough that there is no minimum wage in Germany, yet the average union worker makes more than their American counterparts. For instance, a German auto worker makes about ~$67/hr, while the average American auto worker makes ~$33/hr.

    You know what makes this special? Unions in Germany are 100% voluntary in every aspect. The unions have to strive to represent the people, not force people who don't want to be there.

    Produce a union that people want to join, and they will. Stop ****ing crying and whining about nobody wanting to be in your club, it's YOUR FAULT.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 01-01-13 at 08:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  9. #249
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    I am in a union, I have no choice in the matter as it is "obligatory" to do so in my chosen proffesion. By obligatory I mean that I have to pay the union dues, I could "quit" the union, but then Id still have to pay the dues and would have no representaion if ever I have a dispute with my employer. I would still be employed under the union contract however, just no free lawyers etc...

    For the record I dont particularily like my union, but that is only because we merged with a larger "Corporate" union (what i call the very large unions who seem more interested in making money for themselves than caring about their members). That is head office I dont like, locally/regionally they are quite good and I have even been local rep in the past, working out some pretty big problems with management. By problems I dont mean management and the union were butting heads but some major issues we were having that needed a solution acceptable to both sides, it was complicated but sorted out to everyones satisfation.
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  10. #250
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    Re: How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Now you're just being silly. Union membership may have peaked in 1945 but unions were at the zenith of their power and influence over the next 30 years.
    Oh. It was one of those magical "zeniths". And being the only industrial center on the planet magically had nothing to do with it, just like how being forced to compete against more efficient forms of business organization had nothing to do with dinosaur unions dying out.

    We can both cherry pick our favorite theory for the Great Depression. Methinks it had a lot more to do with monetary contraction than artificially inflated wages. This could make for a very interesting debate in itself. Unfortunately, I do not have the time for it presently.
    Another time, though I wouldn't fight you on deflation - I would simply point out that wages are supposed to fall during Depressions and, thanks to Unions wages instead increased and so what decreased was the demand for labor .

    We both know that competing companies are compelled to engage in a race to the bottom in regards to labor costs.
    In some markets, certainly. In others, the opposite is true. Supply and Demand will affix different worths to different folks' labor dependent upon their abilities, education, skill set, and available resources that they can leverage. Someone who has been trained to be a really brilliant cow-herder isn't worth much on the trading floor of the NYSE, just as a really great software quant isn't going to be worth much on a farm.

    Yes, lower labor costs translates into lower production costs which translates into lower market prices.
    That is certainly part of it. Another huge part is increases in productivity and efficiency. If your per capita labor costs go up 20% over a decade, but your per capita productivity goes up 50%, you are doing quite well.

    Of course, chattel slavery, serfdom, indentured servitude, and subsistence wages will yield the lowest labor costs and thus the lowest market prices.
    A claim which is interesting not least because it seems to have few reflections in the real world. Like most folks who come from your side of this question, you appear not to realize that labor costs are irrelevant. Labor Costs To Productivity are what matters. The German costs $80K a year, but makes $1Million in high-performance Beamer Automobile, while the Chinese guy costs $5,000 a year, and makes $20,000 worth of toys.... guess what? The German guy is actually cheaper than the Chinese guy.

    So much for your supply/demand curve in regards to real world human morality, real world social stability, and real world politics.
    You can stamp your foot and be as morally outraged as you like, it does not alter the reality that labor, like every other good or service, exists on a supply / demand curve.

    We have been through all of this already. Your way doesn't work. You can argue that management and labor unions need to be more cognizant of their symbiotic relationship. However, you cannot argue that collective bargaining is not necessary. It is very necessary. History attests to the fact.
    History attests to the fact that where collective bargaining becomes dominant, businesses become overburdensome, resistant to change, cost-heavy, and die.

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