View Poll Results: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage?

Voters
170. You may not vote on this poll
  • Because Iím gay/lesbian

    3 1.76%
  • Because itís an equal rights issue

    93 54.71%
  • Because gays/lesbians love each other too

    8 4.71%
  • Because I despise bigots/haters

    2 1.18%
  • Because I donít want to be labeled a bigot

    1 0.59%
  • Iím opposed to gay marriage

    14 8.24%
  • I donít care, either way

    17 10.00%
  • Other

    32 18.82%
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Thread: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

  1. #321
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I agree with Oscar. The same rationale that extends marriage to same sex couples implies that marriage should be extended to relatives and polygamous groups. This is simple logic, and dragonfly is a hypocrite.

    Bottom line is that government has no business gran special rights to married people but if it does it must do so equally, to straight, gay, incestuous and polygamous groups. This is about equal protection under the law.
    These efforts overlook one key difference between gay marriage and polygamous marriage. One permits equality between two married spouses; the other does not. And that in turn means that allowing polygamy would violate not only the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, but also the U.S. obligation under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to “ensure equality of rights and responsibilities of spouses as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.” So important is this right that both the UN Human Rights Committee and the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) have condemned polygamy in no uncertain terms. It should be “definitely abolished,” the Human Rights Committee ruled, because it violates women’s dignity rights and is an “inadmissible discrimination” against them. Similarly, CEDAW notes that it “contravenes a woman’s right to equality with men” and has “such serious emotional and financial consequences for her and her dependents” that it should be prohibited.

    Moreover, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled against federal and state laws that give a wife fewer rights than a husband merely because of her sex, just as does a law permitting a husband to practice polygamy. Whether the law is so explicit that it makes the husband “head and master” of the home with the sole right to control property (Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455 (1981)) or denies a wife benefits awarded automatically to a husband, such as welfare benefits if the wife is unemployed (Califano v. Westcott, 443 U.S. 76 (1979)), housing and medical benefits for the wife’s spouse (Frontiero v. Richardson, 411 U.S. 677 (1973)), child-care benefits for a surviving spouse (Weinberger v. Wiesenfeld, 420 U.S. 636 (1975)), or self-care benefits for a surviving spouse (Califano v. Goldfarb, 430 U.S. 199 (1977), and Wengler v. Druggists Mutual Insurance Company, 446 U.S. 142 (1980)), the Court has found violations of the Equal Protection Clause. Even when the rule discriminated against husbands, as in a state law requiring only husbands to pay alimony (Orr v. Orr, 440 U.S. 268 (1979)), the Court has required equality for husband and wife.

    Should Polygamy Be Permitted in the United States? | Section of Individual Rights and Responsibilities

  2. #322
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You have proven your ignorance in magnificent form. Thank you for that.

    Now before you go on....perhaps you might want to go here and read around a bit.
    you have proven you are a hypocrite.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  3. #323
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Once more into the breach......

    marriage is a status upon which some benefits accrue. When it comes to denying gays certain things, it is a discrimination claim. Denying them a privilege like marriage is not an equal protection issue--it is an enumerated powers issue as far as the federal government is concerned. As a rights issue you must turn to the 9th Amendment un-enumerated rights language to get you into the 14th Amendment which gives the feds the right to enforce its position onto the states. What does the 9th Amendment say since nobody here seems to have read it recently: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

  4. #324
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    you have proven you are a hypocrite.
    And you have proven yourself a buffoon.

    There is NOTHING hypocritical about be pro-SSM but not granting marriage rights to a related-by-blood siblings.

    Only in your tiny mind is that hypocrisy.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    These efforts overlook one key difference between gay marriage and polygamous marriage. One permits equality between two married spouses; the other does not. And that in turn means that allowing polygamy would violate not only the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, but also the U.S. obligation under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to “ensure equality of rights and responsibilities of spouses as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.” So important is this right that both the UN Human Rights Committee and the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) have condemned polygamy in no uncertain terms. It should be “definitely abolished,” the Human Rights Committee ruled, because it violates women’s dignity rights and is an “inadmissible discrimination” against them. Similarly, CEDAW notes that it “contravenes a woman’s right to equality with men” and has “such serious emotional and financial consequences for her and her dependents” that it should be prohibited.

    Moreover, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled against federal and state laws that give a wife fewer rights than a husband merely because of her sex, just as does a law permitting a husband to practice polygamy. Whether the law is so explicit that it makes the husband “head and master” of the home with the sole right to control property (Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455 (1981)) or denies a wife benefits awarded automatically to a husband, such as welfare benefits if the wife is unemployed (Califano v. Westcott, 443 U.S. 76 (1979)), housing and medical benefits for the wife’s spouse (Frontiero v. Richardson, 411 U.S. 677 (1973)), child-care benefits for a surviving spouse (Weinberger v. Wiesenfeld, 420 U.S. 636 (1975)), or self-care benefits for a surviving spouse (Califano v. Goldfarb, 430 U.S. 199 (1977), and Wengler v. Druggists Mutual Insurance Company, 446 U.S. 142 (1980)), the Court has found violations of the Equal Protection Clause. Even when the rule discriminated against husbands, as in a state law requiring only husbands to pay alimony (Orr v. Orr, 440 U.S. 268 (1979)), the Court has required equality for husband and wife.

    Should Polygamy Be Permitted in the United States? | Section of Individual Rights and Responsibilities
    Your entire rant is based upon the assumption (not in evidence) that polygamy is to be defined as a one male with multiple female partners relationship. If we are to accept SSM then clearly gender is not allowed to be determining factor in marriage contracts, thus not an issue in your "polygamy is bad" argument. Note that business partnership contracts do not limit the number of, gender of or family relationship among the partners involved; these contracts handle joint property rights, survivorship rights of a partner's interest/assets, voluntary separation/disolution and the resulting distribution of assets and ownership rights of common property. The only major difference in a business a partnership and a marriage contract is that custody of minor dependents is not covered.
    ďThe reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.Ē ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    funny the lengths some SSM supporters will go to to deny the very right they so loud bleat for for gays to others that they happen to disagree with
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    funny the lengths some SSM supporters will go to to deny the very right they so loud bleat for for gays to others that they happen to disagree with
    Funny how you keep trying to equate gays with other groups that are not gay.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    And you have proven yourself a buffoon.

    There is NOTHING hypocritical about be pro-SSM but not granting marriage rights to a related-by-blood siblings.

    Only in your tiny mind is that hypocrisy.
    Moderator's Warning:
    What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]Knock it off, both of you. Any further stuff like that and expect thread bans and/or points.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Funny how you keep trying to equate gays with other groups that are not gay.
    funny how you keep trying that strawman. I have never said that gays = polygamists = incest. only that they all share the common trait of being consenting adults and that if you are going to argue that one set of consenting adults should have equal rights concerning marriage...then all groups of consenting adults should have equal rights concerning marriage.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  10. #330
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    These efforts overlook one key difference between gay marriage and polygamous marriage. One permits equality between two married spouses; the other does not. And that in turn means that allowing polygamy would violate not only the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, but also the U.S. obligation under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to “ensure equality of rights and responsibilities of spouses as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.” So important is this right that both the UN Human Rights Committee and the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) have condemned polygamy in no uncertain terms. It should be “definitely abolished,” the Human Rights Committee ruled, because it violates women’s dignity rights and is an “inadmissible discrimination” against them. Similarly, CEDAW notes that it “contravenes a woman’s right to equality with men” and has “such serious emotional and financial consequences for her and her dependents” that it should be prohibited.

    Moreover, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled against federal and state laws that give a wife fewer rights than a husband merely because of her sex, just as does a law permitting a husband to practice polygamy. Whether the law is so explicit that it makes the husband “head and master” of the home with the sole right to control property (Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455 (1981)) or denies a wife benefits awarded automatically to a husband, such as welfare benefits if the wife is unemployed (Califano v. Westcott, 443 U.S. 76 (1979)), housing and medical benefits for the wife’s spouse (Frontiero v. Richardson, 411 U.S. 677 (1973)), child-care benefits for a surviving spouse (Weinberger v. Wiesenfeld, 420 U.S. 636 (1975)), or self-care benefits for a surviving spouse (Califano v. Goldfarb, 430 U.S. 199 (1977), and Wengler v. Druggists Mutual Insurance Company, 446 U.S. 142 (1980)), the Court has found violations of the Equal Protection Clause. Even when the rule discriminated against husbands, as in a state law requiring only husbands to pay alimony (Orr v. Orr, 440 U.S. 268 (1979)), the Court has required equality for husband and wife.

    Should Polygamy Be Permitted in the United States? | Section of Individual Rights and Responsibilities
    I'm shocked that you would malign polygamists like that. Polygamy is not always the abusive polygyny stereotype you seem to think it is. Equal protection logically requires that an institution open to a pair of people be open to group of people as well. If you can have a husband and wife you should be able to have a husband and a husband, or three husbands, or what have you. The association of polygamy with abuse is an offensive stereotype that is every bit as offensive and degrading to polygamists as anything stereotype about gays.

    Honestly, winston, look at yourself. It looks incredibly small minded. Just switch the word polygamous with gay in everything you just said and it is clear how intolerant you are being. You're just on the wrong side of progress on this.

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