View Poll Results: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage?

Voters
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  • Because Iím gay/lesbian

    3 1.76%
  • Because itís an equal rights issue

    93 54.71%
  • Because gays/lesbians love each other too

    8 4.71%
  • Because I despise bigots/haters

    2 1.18%
  • Because I donít want to be labeled a bigot

    1 0.59%
  • Iím opposed to gay marriage

    14 8.24%
  • I donít care, either way

    17 10.00%
  • Other

    32 18.82%
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Thread: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

  1. #241
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Again, why is the SSM preference more important, or protected, than a preference to use a recreational drug, to not wear clothing, to buy/sell beer on Sunday or to ride a motorcycle without wearing a helmet? Denying those preferences does not serve any particular state interest, they are simply what was desired by the majority, thus they were made into law.
    Marriage is a right. recreational drugs and fashion choices are not. This is not complicated stuff and has nbeen explained countless times, including to you.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If you loved gay people, you would not discriminate against them institutionally. Because, you see, institutional discrimination is NOT tolerance. Stop persecuting people.

    Regarding the bold, who forced you to do gay stuff?
    Please explain to me how I've discriminated against anybody?

    Regarding the bold, who forced you to do gay stuff?


    I never said anyone "forced" me to do gay stuff. I'm talking about the culture of political correctness where people feel pressured to endorse, celebrate and participate in something they have a moral objection to.

    -I was watching a television newscast once where a story was reported on new gay marriage laws. The entire news crew was smiling ear to ear as if puppies had been born, some of whom very awkwardly. I know people in TV news and know enough about the industry that they were TOLD to all appear emotionally moved after the gay couples kissed.

    -In Canada political correction has been so codified that it is a federal crime for Christian ministers to preach sermons taken from the Bible that define same sex intimacy as a sin over Christian radio stations.

    -I have a friend who moved here from Canada who is a preacher. He stopped performing wedding ceremonies there because he was required to perform same sex weddings as a condition of being allowed to marry members of his own congregation.

    -Voters in many states have seen ballot initiatives that asked them do they want to see gay marriage legalized; again, something to which they have an honest moral/spiritual objection. Vote no, elements of society label them hate-filled bigots. Vote yes and they violate their own conscious and deliberately and actively oppose the teachings of their God. And democracy isn't just what happens the voting booth. Christians in particular have been instructed in the Bible to actively support Biblical values in the societies in which they live. Matthew 5:13, Proverbs 29:2, Acts 25.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  3. #243
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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Marriage is a right. recreational drugs and fashion choices are not. This is not complicated stuff and has nbeen explained countless times, including to you.
    Marriage as defined by the state is a right, I will agree. Marriage as defined by how one wishes it were defined by the state is not a right. Do I have a right to go to the prison facility of my prefered gender, or only my actual gender? Can I serve in the military based on my prefered set of physical standards or must I accept their "arbitrary" use of my actual gender/age to establish them?
    ďThe reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.Ē ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Marriage as defined by the state is a right, I will agree. Marriage as defined by how one wishes it were defined by the state is not a right. Do I have a right to go to the prison facility of my prefered gender, or only my actual gender? Can I serve in the military based on my prefered set of physical standards or must I accept their "arbitrary" use of my actual gender to establish them?
    Loving specifically enumerated marraige as a right in the United States.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Loving specifically enumerated marraige as a right in the United States.
    Loving specifically said that race could not be used by the state to restrict it. Loving lacked any mention of gender "preference".
    ďThe reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.Ē ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Loving specifically said that race could not be used by the state to restrict it. Loving lacked any mention of gender "preference".
    What did I write? That Loving established marriage as a right. Why did you go off on some unrelated tangent?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What did I write? That Loving established marriage as a right. Why did you go off on some unrelated tangent?
    Silly me, I thought that we were talking about changing state law, by SCOTUS fiat, based on a preference for SSM being recognized (added?) as a new "civil right".
    ďThe reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.Ē ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    One must be careful when describing not being able to live "their way" as having their civil rights denied.
    Not speaking about being able to "live their way". I'm speaking specifically of a civil right that the SCOTUS has deemed is constitutionally protected...ie marriage.

    Equal protection, does not mean that all laws must treat all people as they wish (prefer?), simply that they are not intentionally discriminating against based on Constitutionally (legally?) defined traits (e.g. race, gender, religion and etc.); so far, "preference" has not been added to that list.
    Actually, sexual preference IS on that list (so far as all those on the list are there due primarily to judicial precedence). It's on the list as a lower teir category protected group, requiring the sterner second-order rational basis test of that teir. That means to discriminate against the group the state must provide that the discrimination is rationally related to a legitimate state interest.

    Is a preference to have two spouses fundamentally different that to prefer having a same sex spouse?
    Yes, as to my knowledge there's no precedence that "polygamist" is viewed as requiring that sterner version of lower teir protection. Furthermore, the potential financial and contract pitfalls of a multiperson marriage provide additional arguments overtop any that one would be able to present in terms of allowing for same sex.

    Is one's preference to smoke marijuana, buy/sell beer on Sunday or walk around nude reason to allow it as a civil right?
    Again, there has been no precedenec in determining that there is an inherent civil right to smoke marijuana, buy/sell beer on sunday, or walk around nude. Additionally, the issue of what "group" is being discriminated against and on what basis would need to be determined, not to mention that all those things have varying degrees of arguments in terms of state interest. It's a rather non-sensical argument you're putting forth.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Silly me, I thought that we were talking about changing state law, by SCOTUS fiat, based on a preference for SSM being recognized (added?) as a new "civil right".
    OK, I can see I am going to have to slow this way down for you.

    Loving established that marriage is a right.

    For a state or federal government to deny a right to a group, they need a reason. How good a reason is determined by the level of scrutiny. So far SSM bans have failed based on the lowest level of Scrutiny, Rational basis Review.

    States are the final arbitors of who gets married, but they have to do so within the framework of the US constitution. In other words, states cannot deny rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

    There is no "changing state law by SCOTUS fiat".

    There will be no new civil right.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    First of all, don't worry about the kids. Kids are FAR FAR FAR more open to SSM than adults are.
    Yeah, your anecdotal statement that there are more kids that are open to SSM than adults in no way changes my statement that it does create an actual change.

    Second, I truly don't weep at all for people who stand to make more money and have increased business activity but struggle with their own moral issues over where the money comes from.
    They'll get over it. Business is about money, income and profit. There will be plenty of establishments that will gladly perform ceremonies, decorate cakes, provide flowers, print invitations, sell dresses and/or tuxedos, and provide space without questioning who's writing the check.
    The fact you "don't weep for them" in no way negates the fact that it would cause a change.

    Third, gay people are part of society regardless of marital status. They are police, fire and rescue, construction, small business owners, medical staff, postal employees, waiters, bar tenders, sports figures, ........... so society won't change at all by recognizing gay marriage other than perhaps a slight uptick in profits for some.
    Your strawman, again, doesn't negate the fact that there would be cahnge. I never suggested "gay people" weren't "a part of society". I suggested that changing the legal meaning of marriage would impart a societal change as to what the public consiousness of "marriage" means. While you can't force societal acceptance of something, it would force society to LEGALLY accept something which DOES create a change.

    Simply because you think those changes are good or don't care that people may not like the changes doesn't mean they don't happen.

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