If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

Goshin said:

We've created a special Fed agency and funded it in the billions and created all kinds of new laws and police proceedures... but boy we've done great getting weed and meth off the streets huh? :roll:

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You cant stop all murders so we should just make murder legal.

Deuce said:

You cant stop all murders so we should just make murder legal.

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Totally missing the point.

Murder =/= gun ownership.

one is inherently wrong, the other is not.

Banning murder affects only the guilty. Banning guns, or types of guns, also affects the innocent.... lots more innocent than guilty in fact.

Goshin said:

You really want to go there, and have that kind of a police state?

In any case, all these tip lines and stuff have worked SO WELL in keeping drugs off the street right? :roll:


Doing the same things and expecting a different result...

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Lets not pretend that government cannot accomplish a goal if we give them the tools necessary and they have the backing of the people to do it.

That is my point.

There is no war on drugs in the USA that truly exists beyond a PR campaign. There never has been any true actual real war on drugs in the USA. So to use it as example of failed government goals is a false premise right out of the gate. In 1949 Mao in China declared war on a drug problem that was much greater, far worse in terms of addiction and power of the drug and its widespread use in the population. Within five years, it was eradicated.

So please do not tell me that an impotent eunuch cannot impregnate a woman. Perhaps the key is to get rid of the eunuch and bring in a stud who can do the job and has the proper equipment and knows how to use it. Or else don't try to get pregnant in the first place.

haymarket said:

Lets not pretend that government cannot accomplish a goal if we give them the tools necessary and they have the backing of the people to do it.

That is my point.

There is no war on drugs in the USA that truly exists beyond a PR campaign. There never has been any true actual real war on drugs in the USA. So to use it as example of failed government goals is a false premise right out of the gate. In 1949 Mao in China declared war on a drug problem that was much greater, far worse in terms of addiction and power of the drug and its widespread use in the population. Within five years, it was eradicated.

So please do not tell me that an impotent eunuch cannot impregnate a woman. Perhaps the key is to get rid of the eunuch and bring in a stud who can do the job and has the proper equipment and knows how to use it. Or else don't try to get pregnant in the first place.

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So you want us to emulate Communist China? A police state then?

0bserver92 said:

It's actually not that hard since there is a list and:

It's what we want we are not gun nuts like Americans we see no reason for a person to be able to own anything more than a hunting rifle or shotgun and certain handguns. What Americans may not know is that concealed carry is legal in Canada but the firearms officers refuse to give the permits.

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Even under those restrictions the available firearms are just as deadly so what is the point of those restrictions? What do they gain?

Goshin said:

So you want us to emulate Communist China? A police state then?

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Where did I say that? I simply was pointing out that government can indeed accomplish a task if the people are behind it and it has the power to do so. The example I originally went with was zero tolerance for Nazi operatives within the USA in World War Two. You brought up the war on drugs and I went with that.

haymarket said:

Where did I say that? I simply was pointing out that government can indeed accomplish a task if the people are behind it and it has the power to do so. The example I originally went with was zero tolerance for Nazi operatives within the USA in World War Two. You brought up the war on drugs and I went with that.

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My point it, it isn't worth becoming a total police state.

Goshin said:

My point it, it isn't worth becoming a total police state.

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And I concur in that judgment.

I hope we as a people can allow and empower government to accomplish agreed upon goals and the tasks necessary to forward and meet those goals short of that nightmare.

Deuce said:

Hold on. Wait. You're suggesting that a magazine capacity limit is not the same thing as taking away all guns forever!?

Blasphemy, sir. We don't do nuance around here. Gun control is Hitler, and a lack of gun control is also Hitler.

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we shouldn't ban speech in total, but we should restrict how much speech one is allowed
there's your "nuance" in relation to free speech rights.

haymarket said:

And I concur in that judgment.

I hope we as a people can allow and empower government to accomplish agreed upon goals and the tasks necessary to forward and meet those goals short of that nightmare.

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sounds great..... now , about those "agreed upon goals and tasks"....got any?

...will form a union and fight back against tyrannical Republicans.

Actually, they'd probably be as violent as any major union in the United States.

A criminal is a person who does not respect the law or finds laws inconvienent and chooses to disobey them. Some gunnies have openly stated that they take their CW's into LEGALLY MARKED no gun zones. This is no different than the mindset of a criminal. They don't want to obey the law or they find it inconvienent. And these people have guns and "passed" all of the requirements to have them.

As such I find the arguments of people like that against criminals to be egocentric and hypocritical. Their ego and arrogance blinds them to the fact that their actions have made them part of the group they are so hell bent to protect us from.

As to the matter at hand. As I have many times it is a logistical impossiblity to ban or confiscate all weapons in the home.

But taking a view from a gun owner on this forum, this may help. Have the gun and ammo manufactuers stop producing guns and ammo which has only one purpose to kill people. Have the government specifically identify those guns which would be considered legitimate hunting weapons.

Make all CW's illegal. Then have a VOLUNTARY turn in program for people with any gun with a small payout for doing so. The money would come from taxes on the gun companies or fines for those who delay or "accidently" produce illegal weapons.

Make the gun laws stricter and perhaps have separate areas like penal facilities for those who violate the law.

Will these do the trick, maybe in the long term since as certain guns are no longer produced they will become harder to get. But in reality I doubt it. But something constructive has to be done and to bury your head in the sand ever time a suggestion is made that might save one live is escapist and moronic. You want to save lives, PROVE IT, stop whining and DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE for a change.

wolfman24 said:

Have the gun and ammo manufactuers stop producing guns and ammo which has only one purpose to kill people.

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I'll agree to this when you all guarantee that other people never represent a threat to other people.

Goshin said:

My point it, it isn't worth becoming a total police state.

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if comes to that honest gun owners ought to take out as many of those who are pushing the police state as possible

nothing scares a fascist or a dictator more than the thought of a 308 lobotomy and those who support such a police state will be soft targets easily killed as well

TurtleDude said:

if comes to that honest gun owners ought to take out as many of those who are pushing the police state as possible

nothing scares a fascist or a dictator more than the thought of a 308 lobotomy and those who support such a police state will be soft targets easily killed as well

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Its always fun to read the murder fantasies of the right.

TurtleDude said:

if comes to that honest gun owners ought to take out as many of those who are pushing the police state as possible

nothing scares a fascist or a dictator more than the thought of a 308 lobotomy and those who support such a police state will be soft targets easily killed as well

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I completely agree with this. Iraqi soldiers had guns which is why we were never able to to successfully invade their country.

Well i dont know how easy it is to purchase a firearm on the black market..

Just like marijuana, banning them will not solve the problem and in fact would make it worse. This is how Mexican cartels are shooting troops at the borders...

Bans won't do anything to reduce the availability of certain types of guns to criminals in the short term, because there are already a lot of that type of gun in existence. In the long term (probably 50 years or more) a ban on certain types of guns will probably make them harder for criminals to get because the total supply will decrease as they start to break down and not be replaced. It would have to be combined with policing to make sure they aren't being smuggled in from other countries though.