View Poll Results: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

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  • ... will get them easily from the black market.

    26 81.25%
  • ... will respect the ban and not buy those guns.

    1 3.13%
  • ... will have a hard time getting those guns on the black market.

    5 15.63%
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Thread: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

  1. #11
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It would depend on how serious the law is with dealing with the black market.

    We've created a special Fed agency and funded it in the billions and created all kinds of new laws and police proceedures... but boy we've done great getting weed and meth off the streets huh?

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  2. #12
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A person isn't a criminal until he/she becomes one. Many shootings are emotion outbursts and opportunistic. "Crimes of passion." Also crimes of economic desperation. A person doesn't catch his woman with another man and says "you two stay right there while I go try to round up a gun" and a druggie without a dollar can't buy one. No child ever sought out a black market gun to accidently shoot himself or another kid.

    These absolute slogans - on both sides - just don't work. There is no utopia and there are no absolutes. The debate should be in terms of reality, not absolutist slogans.

    I've known too many felons to have any illusions about it; if they want a gun, they get one. I've known felons who have gotten out of prison and within 24 hours had multiple guns in their possession.


    Banning guns entirely might stop the majority of impulse killings, but not planned killings or habitual criminals... and the side of effect of disarming the law abiding would have terrible consequences. Ergo, any scheme short of banning guns is also going to be very limited in positive effects, with negative side effects in most cases as well.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  3. #13
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In World War II we had a zero tolerance policy to Nazi's operating in the USA. We tried to create an environment where no Nazi would have been able to last thirty minutes operating on a street corner or out of their car or house without a dime being dropped on them and the full force and power of the government coming down upon them like a ton of bricks. That is what I am talking about in terms of how serious the law is intended to be.
    Weren’t ‘Americans of German decent (presumed Nazi’s)’ gathered up and put in internment camps during WWII in general compliance with this ‘zero tolerance policy’ you profess? Isn’t what we currently do with criminals essentially the same? How’s that workin’ out?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  4. #14
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nobody including me said a word about regulating anything. That implies a government hand on the tiller steering us through the waters.

    In World War II we had a zero tolerance policy to Nazi's operating in the USA. We tried to create an environment where no Nazi would have been able to last thirty minutes operating on a street corner or out of their car or house without a dime being dropped on them and the full force and power of the government coming down upon them like a ton of bricks. That is what I am talking about in terms of how serious the law is intended to be.

    You really want to go there, and have that kind of a police state?

    In any case, all these tip lines and stuff have worked SO WELL in keeping drugs off the street right?


    Doing the same things and expecting a different result...

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  5. #15
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I used to go to a bar occasionally, on Mill Ave. in Tempe down the street from two other bars I enjoyed. A short walk between the three. At the Asylum there was a sign similar to the one you give as an example. There was a peg board below it with a bouncer to check your weapon; and, I have to add the peg board held many. Memories.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 12-24-12 at 01:21 PM.

  6. #16
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Well in Canada since we've banned guns since the 1960s it's rather effective, since the guns aren't here. They have to spend a lot of time, money, and risk to import them form the U.S.. It wouldn't work in the U.S. since the weapons are already there.

  7. #17
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Well in Canada since we've banned guns since the 1960s it's rather effective, since the guns aren't here. They have to spend a lot of time, money, and risk to import them form the U.S.. It wouldn't work in the U.S. since the weapons are already there.

    Um, you have lots of guns in Canada. More than most nations.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  8. #18
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Um, you have lots of guns in Canada. More than most nations.
    We do but for the most part legally purchased hunting rifles and shotguns. Since if you own one you usually own several. I actually don't know anyone who only owns only one gun. Hunting and sport shooting is very popular.

  9. #19
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    We do but for the most part legally purchased hunting rifles and shotguns. Since if you own one you usually own several. I actually don't know anyone who only owns only one gun. Hunting and sport shooting is very popular.
    Totally contradicting your first statement...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Well in Canada since we've banned guns since the 1960s it's rather effective, since the guns aren't here. They have to spend a lot of time, money, and risk to import them form the U.S.. It wouldn't work in the U.S. since the weapons are already there.

    Canada's gun laws are appallingly complex and restrictive, compared to the US, but you have lots of guns, including semi-automatics that could be used in mass shootings.

    If you look at Canadian stats on almost anything (murders, rapes, abortions, theft, etc) it becomes clear... Canadians are just more civilized and self-restrained than Americans, as a cultural thing.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  10. #20
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    Re: If we ban certain guns, criminals criminals who want them ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Totally contradicting your first statement...




    Canada's gun laws are appallingly complex and restrictive, compared to the US, but you have lots of guns, including semi-automatics that could be used in mass shootings.

    If you look at Canadian stats on almost anything (murders, rapes, abortions, theft, etc) it becomes clear... Canadians are just more civilized and self-restrained than Americans, as a cultural thing.
    It's actually not that hard since there is a list and:
    The Criminal Code states that a prohibited firearm is:

    a handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.1 inches) or less;
    a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition;
    a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make it less than 660 mm (26 inches) in overall length;
    a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more;
    an automatic firearm and a converted automatic firearm;
    any firearm prescribed as prohibited.
    It's what we want we are not gun nuts like Americans we see no reason for a person to be able to own anything more than a hunting rifle or shotgun and certain handguns. What Americans may not know is that concealed carry is legal in Canada but the firearms officers refuse to give the permits.

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