View Poll Results: Is the team name the "Redskins" racist?

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    11 30.56%
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Thread: Redskins = Racism?

  1. #11
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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    I think every sports mascot that is objected to in even a small way should be immediately jettisoned, so we can stop having these brain dead objections brought up every now and again when some pressure group gets its panties in wad.

    Washington Whiteskins ftw.
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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    It can be offensive. Native Americans have complained about it.

    The Sioux have had a long-heated battle with the University of North Dakota, known as the "fighting Sioux".

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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    It can be offensive. Native Americans have complained about it.

    The Sioux have had a long-heated battle with the University of North Dakota, known as the "fighting Sioux".
    I don't see how it is insulting. Should the Irish in this country complain about the "Fighting Irish?" Are they being insulted too?
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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Oh the UND thing isn't insulting, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm just saying that Native American tribes can get up in arms (no pun intended) about certain things involving their heritage.

    If they can bitch about a school using "fighting Sioux" as a nickname, you can imagine that a historic pejorative like "redskins" may invoke some negative reaction.

    They do the same thing with Florida State, as mentioned - just not as vocal. I think for them it's more about the stereotypical Indian that runs out on the field, all decked up in paint and feathers, and throws the ceremonial spear into the ground.

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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Oh the UND thing isn't insulting, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm just saying that Native American tribes can get up in arms (no pun intended) about certain things involving their heritage.

    If they can bitch about a school using "fighting Sioux" as a nickname, you can imagine that a historic pejorative like "redskins" may invoke some negative reaction.

    They do the same thing with Florida State, as mentioned - just not as vocal. I think for them it's more about the stereotypical Indian that runs out on the field, all decked up in paint and feathers, and throws the ceremonial spear into the ground.
    I still don't see how that's insulting. It's celebrating a memory. Having Highland Games where people re-enact the Scots of old isn't insulting to modern Scots. It's remembering the past. Having Civil War re-enactors isn't suggesting that's the way Americans are now, it's just remembering. So it's not insulting. I don't doubt that some Native Americans have complained about the Fighting Sioux or the Seminoles. I just think they're going way out of their way to be insulted.
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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Well, how about if they renamed the team the Washington Niggers? D.C. is 95% black. Nigger has historical meaning as well.

    Instead of a chief on the side of helmets, it'd be a noose.

    You may scoff, but it's along the same lines. Redskins has a negative connotation to Indians. It's akin to calling Jews "kikes" or Italians "wops".

  7. #17
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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well, how about if they renamed the team the Washington Niggers? D.C. is 95% black. Nigger has historical meaning as well.

    Instead of a chief on the side of helmets, it'd be a noose.

    You may scoff, but it's along the same lines. Redskins has a negative connotation to Indians. It's akin to calling Jews "kikes" or Italians "wops".
    Exactly. I wouldn't go so far as to say the Braves or Chiefs needto change, but those aren't derogatory terms.

    While I don't have a problem with the name "Braves" I do find the tomahawk chop thing they do in Atlanta disconcerting. Imagine if the team was called the Atlanta Slaves and to cheer them the crowd sang "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" and pantomimed picking cotton...

    Interstingly, the Redskins were originally the Boston Braves, and shared a stadium with the baseball team. When they moved over to Fenway Park, they changed to the Boston Redskins to link themselves with the Red Sox.


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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88
    Exactly. I wouldn't go so far as to say the Braves or Chiefs needto change, but those aren't derogatory terms.

    While I don't have a problem with the name "Braves" I do find the tomahawk chop thing they do in Atlanta disconcerting. Imagine if the team was called the Atlanta Slaves and to cheer them the crowd sang "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" and pantomimed picking cotton...

    Interstingly, the Redskins were originally the Boston Braves, and shared a stadium with the baseball team. When they moved over to Fenway Park, they changed to the Boston Redskins to link themselves with the Red Sox.
    That's basically how I see it. Braves and Chiefs aren't racist because people never used those in an insulting context. In fact, "brave" is a compliment in today's society.

    However, as I mentioned before, "redskins" is a pejorative. Frontiersmen used that description as a method to mock. Therefore, it is much different than others.

    As far as the "tomahawk chop" done by the Braves in MLB and Florida State in the NCAA, I guess you could take it as kinda iffy, if you so felt it. In addition, Florida State has that "Seminole yell".

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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Not worthy of any vote.
    This is excessively silly.
    But we do have people with nothing better to do.

  10. #20
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    Re: Redskins = Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well, how about if they renamed the team the Washington Niggers? D.C. is 95% black. Nigger has historical meaning as well.

    Instead of a chief on the side of helmets, it'd be a noose.

    You may scoff, but it's along the same lines. Redskins has a negative connotation to Indians. It's akin to calling Jews "kikes" or Italians "wops".
    I see where you're coming from, but it's not clear to me that this is a derogatory term anymore than calling someone "white" or "black." Certainly the usage in the case of the football team is not derogatory. Why would you deliberately nickname yourself with a demeaning term if that is how you meant it?

    From Wiki (bold is mine):
    "Redskin" is a racial descriptor for the indigenous peoples of the Americas and one of the color metaphors for race used in North America and Europe since European colonization of the Western Hemisphere. The term is controversial as it is considered to be offensive by some, and an affectionate sobriquet by others.
    [...]
    The word "Redskin" was never meant as a racial slang and actually came out of the necessity to survive warfare between the Taino people of Boriken (Puerto Rico) and the Spanish soldiers that inhabited the island as part of Spain's plan to maintain supremacy over the people that greeted Columbus in 1492. The Spanish soldier's constructed fortresses in the vicinity of the villages. The fortresses had several lookout posts that were used by the soldiers to be on the lookout for attacks by the Taino braves. They were always led into battle by their Caciques (chiefs). As part of the religious beliefs of the Taino people, they had to take part in Areyto (Pow-Ow)to request the blessing of the god of war and receive his protection during battle. The Areyto involved ritual dances and culminated with face painting. The coloring extracted from Achiote seeds, which produce a bright orange-reddish pigment, was used. The lookout soldiers' job was to look for this as it meant that the Taino's were attacking. The Spanish soldier's screamed, as loud as they could, "Piel Roja", which translates into "Red Skin". This became the "Battle Cry" for the Spanish. In doing so, the word became associated with Native Americans. Oddly enough, it was never meant as a racist word or to describe any people as others might insinuate, But instead, it became and should be known as a word of great pride to anyone who claims native American ancestry. It represents the great valor and courage of men, who knew their weapons were inferior and that death waited for them over the clearing, but still fought and gave their lives for freedom from the oppressors

    Redskin (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I've personally been called "White," "Haoli," "Gaijin," and "Wasichu" by various peoples and never took offense because the terms were not used in a derogatory manner, only as a descriptor. If I desperately wanted to, I could have been offended, but I didn't because that was clearly not the intent of the speaker. I think the usage of "Redskin" in the case of the football team is not derogatory, but rather it is celebratory.
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