View Poll Results: WHy Are the Dems now Pushing Severe Gun Restrictions

Voters
66. You may not vote on this poll
  • Because of the School Massacre

    28 42.42%
  • Because Obama didn't want to lose the last election

    15 22.73%
  • Because the dems want to stick it to pro gun groups

    19 28.79%
  • Because the dems want to distract from the financial mess

    19 28.79%
  • Because they actually think it will decrease crime

    29 43.94%
  • Oher

    14 21.21%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

  1. #11
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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    those facts being?
    The facts are the facts.

    How do criminals get their guns? How many people become criminals, who had never committed a crime in the past, because they have a gun? How do our laws address the answers to these two questions? These questions have factual answers that can be determined through analysis. We can both agree that we want to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, and we want to allow law abiding citizens to have those same firearms. We need thoughtful analysis to determine solutions and courses of action, not hyperbole and rhetoric.

    If someone simply says there's nothing we can do, any law will only harm the security of individual citizens that's simply rhetoric. Likewise, if someone says we need to ban all assault rifles, or rifles of similar type as the kind used during the recent school shooting that doesn't really address the real problem of gun crime as most gun crimes or crimes committed with guns are done with pistols. That's also probably just rhetoric.

    frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

    This PBS report using data from the ATF for example shows that the majority of pistols used by criminals or on the illegal market are actually sold by perfectly legitimate gun dealers, who sell their product illegally. That seems like a good starting point because if we shut down or deal with those rogue licensed gun dealers, than we can hamper the amount of guns sold through illegal sales to individuals who couldn't acquire one legally. It wouldn't affect the every day citizen who, if his local gun store is shut down for being one of these rogue dealers, he can simply go to another gun store that plays by the rules and acquire the same weapons.

    This is what I mean by facts, looking at the statistics and the information available and figuring out ways to solve the problem or mitigate it at least.

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    The facts are the facts.

    How do criminals get their guns? How many people become criminals, who had never committed a crime in the past, because they have a gun? How do our laws address the answers to these two questions? These questions have factual answers that can be determined through analysis. We can both agree that we want to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, and we want to allow law abiding citizens to have those same firearms. We need thoughtful analysis to determine solutions and courses of action, not hyperbole and rhetoric.

    If someone simply says there's nothing we can do, any law will only harm the security of individual citizens that's simply rhetoric. Likewise, if someone says we need to ban all assault rifles, or rifles of similar type as the kind used during the recent school shooting that doesn't really address the real problem of gun crime as most gun crimes or crimes committed with guns are done with pistols. That's also probably just rhetoric.

    frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

    This PBS report using data from the ATF for example shows that the majority of pistols used by criminals or on the illegal market are actually sold by perfectly legitimate gun dealers, who sell their product illegally. That seems like a good starting point because if we shut down or deal with those rogue licensed gun dealers, than we can hamper the amount of guns sold through illegal sales to individuals who couldn't acquire one legally. It wouldn't affect the every day citizen who, if his local gun store is shut down for being one of these rogue dealers, he can simply go to another gun store that plays by the rules and acquire the same weapons.

    This is what I mean by facts, looking at the statistics and the information available and figuring out ways to solve the problem or mitigate it at least.
    THE ATF HAS PLENTY OF LAWS to shut down rogue dealers. for example, if you buy two handguns from the same dealer in 5 business days or less the dealer is required to submit a form to the ATF. How many cases do you think the ATF actually does that. Someone comes into a store and buys 15 cheap 25 autos (this is a case I know about) did the ATF investigate the guy? NOPE-not until the guns showed up in big city several hundred miles away.

    tell us why if I pass a background check (I do several times a year because I buy guns often) why should I be denied the right to own a Colt AR 15 with a 30 round magazine?

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    THE ATF HAS PLENTY OF LAWS to shut down rogue dealers. for example, if you buy two handguns from the same dealer in 5 business days or less the dealer is required to submit a form to the ATF. How many cases do you think the ATF actually does that. Someone comes into a store and buys 15 cheap 25 autos (this is a case I know about) did the ATF investigate the guy? NOPE-not until the guns showed up in big city several hundred miles away.

    tell us why if I pass a background check (I do several times a year because I buy guns often) why should I be denied the right to own a Colt AR 15 with a 30 round magazine?
    I didn't say you should be denied the right, there you got with the hyperbole again. I also didn't say we needed more laws, again hyperbole and rhetoric. I said these rogue dealers seemed like a good starting point, perhaps the way to go is to analysis and examine how the laws are enforced, if they truly have plenty, and see if there's other way to enforce them better, maybe its a simple matter of resources. Perhaps they should be investigating the guy who bought 15 guns in a single day, its worth looking into.

    Stop letting your emotions get the better of you.

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I didn't say you should be denied the right, there you got with the hyperbole again. I also didn't say we needed more laws, again hyperbole and rhetoric. I said these rogue dealers seemed like a good starting point, perhaps the way to go is to analysis and examine how the laws are enforced, if they truly have plenty, and see if there's other way to enforce them better, maybe its a simple matter of resources. Perhaps they should be investigating the guy who bought 15 guns in a single day, its worth looking into.

    Stop letting your emotions get the better of you.
    My post was to those in general who whine that we need to restrict the rights of gun owners. I should have made that more clear

    and yes, there are plenty of laws to put away rogue dealers. I used to be general counsel for a huge NRA affiliated organization. I don't know any member of that group that had any use for dealers who sold stuff to people they knew or had reason to believe were prohibited or straw purchasers

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Is it the massacre or is it political expediency or just plain pandering
    I believe that anti-2nd amendment loons regardless of political affiliation have been trying to **** on the 2nd amendment.They just use the rare mass shootings in order to exploit peoples emotions on these stories to **** on the 2nd amendment.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Is it the massacre or is it political expediency or just plain pandering
    What specifically have they pushed for?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What specifically have they pushed for?
    you are unaware that Obama bin Lyin claims that the clinton gun ban has to be reinstated?

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    My post was to those in general who whine that we need to restrict the rights of gun owners. I should have made that more clear

    and yes, there are plenty of laws to put away rogue dealers. I used to be general counsel for a huge NRA affiliated organization. I don't know any member of that group that had any use for dealers who sold stuff to people they knew or had reason to believe were prohibited or straw purchasers
    So I hope instead of the message we hear from many other people, that there's nothing we can do to stop these kinds of things except perhaps to often the proverbial flood gates and just arm everyone, that the pro-gun individuals bring up a different argument about how we can better take weapons from the hands of criminals and use that to oppose the other argument that we need to just take guns away from everyone.

    Its an oversimplification on my part but it seems like most responses to crime gun, and especially this school shooting, generally fall into one of two categories. That we must either A) Arm everyone so criminals have nowhere to go where an armed citizen isn't already or B) get rid of all guns period. The shared theme of both these arguments is that they target both criminals and non-criminals equally, either by arming everyone so the criminals with guns are outnumbered and out gunned or attempting to take guns away from everyone both criminals and normal citizens equally.

    I think its possible to do a lot that only affects the criminal side of this, where we can still give people the option to buy weapons and at the same time take away the options of criminals to acquire them. And its the best place to start politically as well since it doesn't offend one side or the other, since everyone can agree that's a good thing or at least most everyone. Some very pro-gun individuals will worry that actions taken affect law abiding citizens, likewise some very anti gun folks will point out that even citizens who have never commit a crime may purchase or acquire guns legally and then commit a crime with them. That is exactly what happened in this recent shooting, the shooter had no prior convictions and while he technically stole the weapons from his mother the fact that she was able to legally purchase them made them much more available for him.

    Again these are the facts, and I believe with a little analysis of them and many others solutions will present themselves that can be implemented with a little compromise from both sides.

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    I think the majority of Citizens were shocked into action as the slaughter of 20 very young children and a half dozen of their teachers was just beyond the pale.

    The reasons those who want action taken are mobilizing now- from total bans to more funding for mental health- are myriad.

    The traditional opponents to any firearm reform are seen as weak now. The last election shows the republicans are at low ebb. Obama was very vulnerable and the GOP picked a fop to run against him. Millions was spent to seize the Senate and they LOST seats. The Tea Party leader of the Senate who decided not to help Romney get elected, DeMint, is scuttling off to the Heritage Hallowed Halls after the setback. The Republicans lost seats in the House as well but did hang on. Boehner can't rally his people so I guess now is as good a time as any to try and reform how we deal with firearms and violence.

    I would say the GOP needs this. They need a rally point, a flag to form up on. A Clarion Call to bring the faithful to meet the threat.

    The real question is are the Faithful still numerous and rich enough to battle the new majority who want something more than lip service done...

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    Re: Why are the Dems NOW pushing for severe restrictions upon lawful gun owners

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Is it the massacre or is it political expediency or just plain pandering
    The real reason is not in your poll. The reason is strong public outcry for more gun laws right now. Go ahead and keep building those straw men though, it is fun to watch.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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