• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mental Health - Isn't This The Real Issue?

Mental Health As a Country-wide Topic

  • yes - we should openly discuss and confront this as a country

    Votes: 42 84.0%
  • no - it should remain closeted and silent, like it's always been

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other - please explain

    Votes: 8 16.0%

  • Total voters
    50

Dragonfly

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
30,875
Reaction score
19,281
Location
East Coast - USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
When will America recognize the 800 pound gorilla in the room? When will the focus of concern and attention be directed at the true issue here?

Why is mental health still such a hush-hush topic? Something to be kept secret? Something to be be ashamed of or buried?

How can something that effects so many still be thought of as unspeakable and embarrassing?

Depression, anxiety, fear, anger, loneliness, hatred, and an overwhelming sense of hopelessness.

These things need far more attention than our country currently give them.

What will it take for people to open up about such things?

How can we improve our understanding and knowledge about these conditions and not treat them as weaknesses or things to be ashamed of, but as things that can be overcome and helped through?

If mental health had the same social stigma as cancer, would society be better off as a whole?
 
If mental health was the same as cancer there would be funding for it. Right now the industry does not want to pay for mental health care, at least chronic, because there is no money in it. There is more to it, I think, but money is the bottom line.
 
There's something weird about society. If you can see it in an x-ray it's real. If not, you must be lying, lazy, or both.

That's something that we must try to avoid.
 
As I suggested on a friends facebook wall when they posted the "I Am Adam Lanza's Mother" article...

Mental Health doesn't get the attention because the hyper partisan agenda drivers on both sides can't make that into a political issue as well, so it's not useful. Guns? Guns can get people arguing, guns can push peoples political buttons, guns can cause controversy. Controversy drives ratings/buys for the media and money/support for politicians. Mental Health? Outside of the standardized health care debate, Mental Health isn't nearly the same hot button political issue. Becuase the reality is, outside of the initial feeling of sadness and hurt towards the victims, most of those in the media and political realm reacting off this thing are doing so at the expense of the victims...not in their memory...simply to push their political views with new ammunition (no pun intended)
 
If mental health was the same as cancer there would be funding for it. Right now the industry does not want to pay for mental health care, at least chronic, because there is no money in it. There is more to it, I think, but money is the bottom line.

Yes, money is a big issue. A large amount of Medicaid money is used for mental illness treatment and Medicaid is a big issue right now. Many people who have significant mental health problems cannot support or take care of themselves. When you combine the cost of mental illness, drug treatment, nursing home, and general health care for the poor, I don't see how we could ever provide the quality of care that these people need.
 
Mental illness has always had a stigma attached to it because people can't see into the minds of the mentally ill in order to completely understand it, whereas they can see the physical deterioration of cancer and other diseases of the body.
 
What about your Obama's Medicare. The one that provides health services to everyone for free I hear. The one that offers health services payed from other people (i.e., much spoken socialism)? Does it covers mental health?
 
There's something weird about society. If you can see it in an x-ray it's real. If not, you must be lying, lazy, or both.

That's something that we must try to avoid.

This, we need to get to a point where going to see a therapist is just like going to see a doctor because you have the flu. We need to de-stigmatize mental illness, period.
 
Yes, money is a big issue. A large amount of Medicaid money is used for mental illness treatment and Medicaid is a big issue right now. Many people who have significant mental health problems cannot support or take care of themselves. When you combine the cost of mental illness, drug treatment, nursing home, and general health care for the poor, I don't see how we could ever provide the quality of care that these people need.
State mental hospitals, which provide long term in house care won't accept or aren't allowed to accept medicaid or medicare. As a result, many states have shut down their state mental hospitals for lack adequate funding. That might be why Adam's mother was thinking to move to Washington state where they still have a state mental hospital.


Western State Hospital (Washington State) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CMA ||  Medicare Coverage of Mental Health Services
 
Which stigma about mental illness is being referenced? There are so many kinds of mental illness, from serious to relatively trivial, that just calling it mental illness causes it to be thought of in the most serious terms.

We also use mental illness terms to reference any horrific criminal action: "What sane person would kill 20 children?"

On the other hand, it used to be easier to have someone committed when a threat was possible.

I don't know the solution, but if it is true that some mental health professional tried to have this killer institutionalized and was prevented from doing so, then this is going to turn into a battle between the "take the guns from people" crowd and the "mental illness needs more money" crowd. Neither one will prevent these things but one will make feel better and one will not. Pick your poison.
 
This, we need to get to a point where going to see a therapist is just like going to see a doctor because you have the flu. We need to de-stigmatize mental illness, period.

Georgia the State of America or the Country east to Turkiye? Is it not that mental health is destigmatized in USA?
 
Which stigma about mental illness is being referenced? There are so many kinds of mental illness, from serious to relatively trivial, that just calling it mental illness causes it to be thought of in the most serious terms.

We also use mental illness terms to reference any horrific criminal action: "What sane person would kill 20 children?"

On the other hand, it used to be easier to have someone committed when a threat was possible.

I don't know the solution, but if it is true that some mental health professional tried to have this killer institutionalized and was prevented from doing so, then this is going to turn into a battle between the "take the guns from people" crowd and the "mental illness needs more money" crowd. Neither one will prevent these things but one will make feel better and one will not. Pick your poison.

Man you are a brute! A real Brute you know that!? :mrgreen:
 
What about your Obama's Medicare. The one that provides health services to everyone for free I hear. The one that offers health services payed from other people (i.e., much spoken socialism)? Does it covers mental health?

Tale your hyper-partisan bull**** somewhere else please. This isn't a political issue.
It's a very serious issue that impacts every single person alive.

Sweep it under the rug and make something political out of it and we'll doom ourselves to more tragedy.

Honestly - this kind of post makes me agitated beyond words.
 
Which stigma about mental illness is being referenced?

There are so many, but mostly that it's something to be kept quiet because it's something to be ashamed of.

It's a sign of weakness.

Those kinds of things. Or it's simply laziness or selfishness.

Take your pick.
 
Tale your hyper-partisan bull**** somewhere else please. This isn't a political issue.
It's a very serious issue that impacts every single person alive.

Sweep it under the rug and make something political out of it and we'll doom ourselves to more tragedy.

Honestly - this kind of post makes me agitated beyond words.

How about you re-read it again without prejudice and added misconception. Does it covers mental health or not? It is a serious question Fly!
 
State mental hospitals, which provide long term in house care won't accept or aren't allowed to accept medicaid or medicare. As a result, many states have shut down their state mental hospitals for lack adequate funding. That might be why Adam's mother was thinking to move to Washington state where they still have a state mental hospital.


Western State Hospital (Washington State) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CMA*||* Medicare Coverage of Mental Health Services

I did not know that.

Medicaid coverage based on eligibility in different states is insane (sorry for the pun). I believe, the states may decide how much they put toward their Medicaid contribution, which the Federal Gov. matches. It might explain why coverage’s are different among states. And, that can also partly explain why some states are in such a financial bind.

I also saw the Medicare limited reimbursements for the length of hospitalizations and total lifetime limits. I guess its money again. I don’t know what the solution is?
 
State mental hospitals, which provide long term in house care won't accept or aren't allowed to accept medicaid or medicare. As a result, many states have shut down their state mental hospitals for lack adequate funding. That might be why Adam's mother was thinking to move to Washington state where they still have a state mental hospital.


Western State Hospital (Washington State) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CMA*||* Medicare Coverage of Mental Health Services

State mental hospitals have had some serious issues like forced sterilization, abuse, etc.
That's part of the reason we've moved away from committing people.

Half way houses and supervised independence are more humane than involuntary commitment.
 
Which stigma about mental illness is being referenced? There are so many kinds of mental illness, from serious to relatively trivial, that just calling it mental illness causes it to be thought of in the most serious terms.
We also use mental illness terms to reference any horrific criminal action: "What sane person would kill 20 children?"

On the other hand, it used to be easier to have someone committed when a threat was possible.

I don't know the solution, but if it is true that some mental health professional tried to have this killer institutionalized and was prevented from doing so, then this is going to turn into a battle between the "take the guns from people" crowd and the "mental illness needs more money" crowd. Neither one will prevent these things but one will make feel better and one will not. Pick your poison.
I'm for doing both since both contributed to the killing. Adam wouldn't have killed if he wasn't insane and had easy access to guns.
 
I think that the Media projects an "Image" of what the USA and we the people are. and it is diametrically opposed to reality and that many people have mental problems when trying to unravel reallity. For example, here we are, "for liberty and justice for all," and we do lot's of killing in Vietnam, Granada, Panama, Iraq, Libya, lots of Latin American locales and none of these places have liberty and justice. We are leading a drug War and in Afghanistan, after we got control, opium production went up about 30 times what it had been. That is reality. The drug wars in Mexico and South America all seem to be in our little fiefdoms and Iran Contra proves that we do deal drugs. We have the best government and politicians that money can buy and money buys lots of politicians but I can't afford any. I think many students raised in our schools are taught the "Idealistic" imagery about our Nation and when they begin to unravel reality, it is a Cathartic and profoundly mind bending experience. Perhaps it is about "Reality Shock."
 
State mental hospitals have had some serious issues like forced sterilization, abuse, etc.
That's part of the reason we've moved away from committing people.

Half way houses and supervised independence are more humane than involuntary commitment.
Thats true, the old abandoned asylums look like pretty grim places to be. But a big part of the reason we moved away from commiting people was because of the wonder drugs that masked mental illness and made people appear normal. And too, the federal government didn't want to pay for the mental hospitals anymore. So drugging people and helping them to function in society became the goal instead of commiting them. It might have seemed more humane, but theres a lot of people who needed a lot more care than just a few days of observation and then released with a bag of meds.

I knew this lady so thats why i have an interest in this subject....

Prosecutors: Man stabbed grandmother 111 times - CBS News

They tried to commit him too, but they just kept releasing him with his meds after a day or two of observation. He obviously wasn't taking his meds when he did that and the law is that you can;t force them to take their meds. Thats where I think the law does need to be changed, but how do you force someone to take their meds without restraining them? And when they are on their meds they don't fit the criteria to be commited because they're acting more normal.
 
Thats true, the old abandoned asylums look like pretty grim places to be. But a big part of the reason we moved away from commiting people was because of the wonder drugs that masked mental illness and made people appear normal. And too, the federal government didn't want to pay for the mental hospitals anymore. So drugging people and helping them to function in society became the goal instead of commiting them. It might have seemed more humane, but theres a lot of people who needed a lot more care than just a few days of observation and then released with a bag of meds.

I knew this lady so thats why i have an interest in this subject....

Prosecutors: Man stabbed grandmother 111 times - CBS News

They tried to commit him too, but they just kept releasing him with his meds after a day or two of observation. He obviously wasn't taking his meds when he did that and the law is that you can;t force them to take their meds. Thats where I think the law does need to be changed, but how do you force someone to take their meds without restraining them? And when they are on their meds they don't fit the criteria to be commited because they're acting more normal.

Not all people, with mental illness present clear violent tendencies.
Sometimes, they just react out of no where.

I'd be very leery of restarting serious non voluntary institutionalization.
Sometimes it's used as a tool to take property from wealthy family members, sometimes it's used to shut people out of the world, etc.

Community based care, with a possibility of institutionalizing people, with clearly dangerous personalities, ok.
I could get on board, provided it's done right.
 
The point being that if the USofA took a different path towards understanding and communicating about this subject perhaps many potential serious problems would never get that far.

Getting help early would be preventative maintenance, rather than waiting for a full-blown breakdown and being reactionary to catastrophic situations.

Like going to the doctor for a chest cold and treating it before it becomes more serious like pneumonia.
 
Not all people, with mental illness present clear violent tendencies.
Sometimes, they just react out of no where.
Thats true too. But I think when people are diagnosed with schizophrenia and show violent tendencies they should probably get more care than just being drugged and sent on their way with the hope they take their medication.

I'd be very leery of restarting serious non voluntary institutionalization.
Yeah, I agree. But I think they know enough about that particular illness to do more for the patient than they have been. I think it's more a problem funding than it is involuntary vs voluntary commitment.

Sometimes it's used as a tool to take property from wealthy family members, sometimes it's used to shut people out of the world, etc.

Community based care, with a possibility of institutionalizing people, with clearly dangerous personalities, ok.
I could get on board, provided it's done right.
The state mental facilities that are left are probably a lot more modernized than they were in the past and too, the doctors know more about mental illness than they did back then. But their hands are tied and who knows how many more out there that are like that? Could be millions. Could be an epidemic and we don't even know it.
 
How about you re-read it again without prejudice and added misconception. Does it covers mental health or not? It is a serious question Fly!

My apologies. The inclusions of the words "your" and "socialism..." brought up serious red-flags. perhaps I did mis-read it.

If so - I'm sincerely sorry. I shall do 25 pushups as punishment.

:Oopsie
 
My apologies. The inclusions of the words "your" and "socialism..." brought up serious red-flags. perhaps I did mis-read it.

If so - I'm sincerely sorry. I shall do 25 pushups as punishment.

:Oopsie

Fair enough. In socialism we here use to have every health treatment for free, including mental health. How about what Obama promises, is it covered?
 
Back
Top Bottom