Can you live on Minimum Wage

RDS said:

Instead of complaining about minimum wages equip yourself with the skills and training to find some skilled job which pays higher than the minimum wage.

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Manc Skipper said:

Assuming you are capable of aquiring said skills and training, how do you fit it in and pay for it while working 3 minimum wage jobs to get by?

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You can't. It's sink or swim.

lpast said:

You left out alot tess...toothepaste, toilet paper, cleaning supplies...washing your clothes at the laundramat getting a haircut...getting to and from work, buying shoes when you need them, buying clothes when you need them..what if the person needs eyeglass's there are som any things you have left out of LIVING...cant be done in most of the areas of the country...certainly not in the northeast...you cant rent a furnished room for that price in jersey or NY or conn

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$150 a month for food and toiletries is enough to provide me with what I need for the household.

Laundry can be done using the $140 a month in extra money I have. $2/week x 4 weeks = $8. Detergent price included in the above.

I spend less than $300 a year on clothes NOW. Clothes will last if you take care of them. And I can buy cheap clothes at Goodwill, Ross, and other stores within walking distance of the apartment I linked to.

I can get an eye exam for $70 and glasses for $120....without insurance. So if I save up over the year, I can cover my once yearly exam.

Dental cleanings can be done for free at local dental schools.

I can get a $50 physical at a near by clinic, and a free woman's exam at same.

I can go to CVS and get a free/discounted assessment if I develop many common ailments.

I never said ANYTHING about the rest of the country, lastly. I specifically and intentionally focused on Texas. I could also probably speak on Indiana and Michigan, since I've lived there and am well versed on COL in both locations...but I wouldn't speak on the east or west coasts. I lived on both only briefly, as a very young child. What I CAN say, though, is that it's pretty dishonest to refer to those west coast states and cite the $7.25 fed minimum wage, when all of those states actually have a higher minimum wage.

It's $8.00 in California.
$8.80 in Oregon.
$9.19 in Washington state.

lpast said:

Then if thats the way it should be, then everyone else needs to pay more to the govt to help them ones that cant. Whats the alternative ?

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Nope, the government should stay out of it. Everyone should reap what the sow.

Can you point to a single government program that has ever been "properly" managed and has run with efficiency, costliness and without corruption, graft and bloat? If not, they why would you want the government to have even more control of peoples lives? I cannot come up with one, so since the government has show itself to be incapable of properly running anything, I don't want them in everything.

Maenad said:

I'm from Kentucky. I could live on a flat rock. But I don't LIKE living on minimum wage. That is why I spent so much time and money going to school - so I wouldn't have to.

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That is what it boils down to really. Choices

Henrin said:

Which was really the reason you made this thread to begin with.

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Not really..but you can think that...Someone has to show just how bad and how many people have it in this country. Some people walk around with a broken gyroscope in their heads and all they see is utopia.

Fenton said:

I think most here know the economic perils of raising minumum wage so I wont go into it.

I guess faced with such an existance why would anyone chose NOT to better theirseves and earn higher ?

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Post of the day

lpast said:

Then if thats the way it should be, then everyone else needs to pay more to the govt to help them ones that cant. Whats the alternative ?

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To require people to be responsible for themselves, to get an education when they have the opportunity, to work hard so they can have a well-paying job? We shouldn't feel sorry for adults who are stuck in low-paying jobs, we should look at them and say "what the hell is wrong with you?"

People can also do more cooking on a larger scale, as in cooking one meal to last several days. We save a fortune. Plus, people can make their own laundry detergent. We're paying about 25 cents a gallon. Also, buying in bulk as in get a deep freezer, and build a pantry.

TheGirlNextDoor said:

As I said later in this thread - I've done it working two jobs. Thing is, I'm smart enough not to live on either coast - so my COL isn't outrageous. It still isn't. I have a 2200 sq ft, 4 bed, 3 bath, double car garage for way less than your less than your $1232/mo stated above.

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Im not sure what you mean...you rent that house ? is that what your saying...If your paying less than 1232 for rent for that place..I have no idea where you live...aside from that..youre just talking rent...theres many other necessities that cant be avoided.
Btw that house would be 4 grand minimum in jersey...the taxs on that place alone in jersey would 6 grand and up and up and up and up depending where it was.

TheGirlNextDoor said:

Wrong. I got what I have by busting my ass and working hard. I don't get nor take handouts.

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We got our wires crossed somewhere TGND I didnt say you didnt work hard ?

lpast said:

Then if thats the way it should be, then everyone else needs to pay more to the govt to help them ones that cant. Whats the alternative ?

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No, they don't.

The purpose of a minimum wage should not be, and is not, the minimum wage needed to live a comfortable and simple life on ones own, let alone supporting a family.

If one is unable or unwilling to get a position above minimum wage then they should be looking into ways to function based on that....search for another minimum wage individual also in a similar situation and rent a place together. Look towards family or friends if one has them. If not, look towards various non-profit groups and organizations where one can potentially meet other individuals. Change ones thinking to looking at perhaps renting a basement or a room from someone rather than having your own two bed room apartment. Etc.

The only areas of the country where it's likely neigh impossible for the average person to survive on ones own, on 40 total hours of minimum wage work, would likely be your metropolitan time places where the cost of living is drastically higher. Then again, in such a location, the amount of public transpertation, free forms of entertainment and engagement, ability to meet others, and social services provided are also significantly higher as well.

I also commented based off the notion of no further assistance. Which doesn't exist. We have rent subsidized housing, low income health care programs and subsidized free clinics, food stamp programs, various assistance subsidies with regards to transportation or communication, and it goes on and on.

I disagree that ALL jobs should pay, at minimum, the amount needed to live a comfortable life for oneself let alone a family. While I do respect the notion that there may be some rational tweaks to it that could be done, such as perhaps accounting for the higher cost of living in some areas, over all I think that the minimum wage is as it should be.

lpast said:

You cant live on min wage, you cant live on social security...the average ss check is starting in 2012 is 1232.00 per month...you cant rent an apt in the northeast for that..and pay utils.

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You are not entitled to live in your own apartment by yourself, let alone your own two bedroom apartment as your original link showed.

tessaesque said:

$150 a month for food and toiletries is enough to provide me with what I need for the household.

Laundry can be done using the $140 a month in extra money I have. $2/week x 4 weeks = $8. Detergent price included in the above.

I spend less than $300 a year on clothes NOW. Clothes will last if you take care of them. And I can buy cheap clothes at Goodwill, Ross, and other stores within walking distance of the apartment I linked to.

I can get an eye exam for $70 and glasses for $120....without insurance. So if I save up over the year, I can cover my once yearly exam.

Dental cleanings can be done for free at local dental schools.

I can get a $50 physical at a near by clinic, and a free woman's exam at same.

I can go to CVS and get a free/discounted assessment if I develop many common ailments.

I never said ANYTHING about the rest of the country, lastly. I specifically and intentionally focused on Texas. I could also probably speak on Indiana and Michigan, since I've lived there and am well versed on COL in both locations...but I wouldn't speak on the east or west coasts. I lived on both only briefly, as a very young child. What I CAN say, though, is that it's pretty dishonest to refer to those west coast states and cite the $7.25 fed minimum wage, when all of those states actually have a higher minimum wage.

It's $8.00 in California.
$8.80 in Oregon.
$9.19 in Washington state.

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Not everyone is you tess..first of all some people work HARD for minumum wage...like my landscaper his boots and clothes arent lasting as long as yours...depending on what you do...bottom line no one can live on minimum wage...
If the minimum wage was 12 bucks in some areas people couldnt live. and were only talking only about single people...theres lots of parents working for minimum wage..

DVSentinel said:

Nope, the government should stay out of it. Everyone should reap what the sow.

Can you point to a single government program that has ever been "properly" managed and has run with efficiency, costliness and without corruption, graft and bloat? If not, they why would you want the government to have even more control of peoples lives? I cannot come up with one, so since the government has show itself to be incapable of properly running anything, I don't want them in everything.

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I disagree but there is no sense in going back and forth over it...you have every right to your opinion

Cephus said:

To require people to be responsible for themselves, to get an education when they have the opportunity, to work hard so they can have a well-paying job? We shouldn't feel sorry for adults who are stuck in low-paying jobs, we should look at them and say "what the hell is wrong with you?"

Click to expand...

Look conservatives need to get their heads out...and stop living in this lala land where they believe everyone can work hard and go to college and blahblahblahblah...NO not everyone can go to college, no not everyone is bright enough to do college level work...not everyone can possibly afford to go to college...and NO NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE RICH and successful through hard work...that is a big BS story and just talking points for people that dont want to pay any taxs and dont give a chit if they step over bodies in the street

lpast said:

Not everyone is you tess..first of all some people work HARD for minumum wage...like my landscaper his boots and clothes arent lasting as long as yours...depending on what you do...bottom line no one can live on minimum wage...
If the minimum wage was 12 bucks in some areas people couldnt live. and were only talking only about single people...theres lots of parents working for minimum wage..

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I disagree. If minimum wage were raised to $12 an hour, the cost of pretty much everything would rise, within a very short time, the ratio of pay to cost would be right back to where it is today. And while this adjustment occurs, since it will affect everyones wages, how many jobs currently still in America end up elsewhere because labor costs are just to high to compete?

lpast said:

Can you live on minimum wage or even up to 50% more than the minimum wage, before you decide read this article and look the map.
I am looking for another easier to read graph that shows apt costs in every state which in turn shows that at minimum wage FULL time workers cant pay for an apt
Also keep in mind most Minimum wage and low wage earners are part timers <walmarts>


Rent Affordability on Minimum Wage - NYTimes.com

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The people doing that article must not be looking hard enough because in my city you can find a two bedroom apartment all bills paid for about 680 a month.
http://www.apartmentfinder.com/Okla...nts?refer=FP61A&ecid=DF|FP61A|232953&bk=88603

lpast said:

True maggie but thats all too many americans can get now..

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And you'd have even less american's getting it if you forced it up to some kind of "living wage" since you'll likely have numerous instances where a place of business either can't afford to hire enough people to actually make it worth while profitability wise and still run the business OR is able to continue to run it bu thas to cut back on the number of employees due to the increased cost of payroll.

OR I guess you could go the other route and CONTINUE to feed the beast that is the government, deciding to take even more money on the backs of our children's futures, spending even more money we don't have and have no feasable way to tax into existance to help those who honestly are stuck in a bad situation survive AND those who through their own choices and decisions have placed themselves in such a situation continue to sponge off the rest of society with the least amount of effort.

Zyphlin said:

No, they don't.

The purpose of a minimum wage should not be, and is not, the minimum wage needed to live a comfortable and simple life on ones own, let alone supporting a family.

If one is unable or unwilling to get a position above minimum wage then they should be looking into ways to function based on that....search for another minimum wage individual also in a similar situation and rent a place together. Look towards family or friends if one has them. If not, look towards various non-profit groups and organizations where one can potentially meet other individuals. Change ones thinking to looking at perhaps renting a basement or a room from someone rather than having your own two bed room apartment. Etc.

The only areas of the country where it's likely neigh impossible for the average person to survive on ones own, on 40 total hours of minimum wage work, would likely be your metropolitan time places where the cost of living is drastically higher. Then again, in such a location, the amount of public transpertation, free forms of entertainment and engagement, ability to meet others, and social services provided are also significantly higher as well.

I also commented based off the notion of no further assistance. Which doesn't exist. We have rent subsidized housing, low income health care programs and subsidized free clinics, food stamp programs, various assistance subsidies with regards to transportation or communication, and it goes on and on.

I disagree that ALL jobs should pay, at minimum, the amount needed to live a comfortable life for oneself let alone a family. While I do respect the notion that there may be some rational tweaks to it that could be done, such as perhaps accounting for the higher cost of living in some areas, over all I think that the minimum wage is as it should be.

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I agree totally that minimum wage is not to live a comfortable life and that its purpose should be...all the conservative arguments I once shared and believe in..25 yrs ago...today is not 25 yrs ago...the rich didnt send all decent paying jobs to china 25 yrs ago and leave nothing but low wage jobs for MANY Americans with no benefits...this is a new time and all the old talking points are garbage.
Most people do not have full time hours with minimum wage even if they want them...these are people that want to work want to provide for themselves and my have provided for themselves for many years and cant now because they cannot find anything but a minimum wage job.
All this nicey nice box it and put a bow on it...CRAP...If you work hard you will be successful WRONG that died 20 yrs ago for many people that want to work...Everyone can go to college and better themselves and get rich..WRONG many people cannot because of limitations in intelligence and other factors...
Its ironic that in every thread about certain topics you can depend on the conservatives on DPF coming in and makeing all the same comments again and again...and they just dont apply anymore.
This is coming from a man who never collected unemployment in his life, nor was on any type of govt dole and I dont need any now.
Man I dont know where some of you live that you cant see what I see...just go to walmart and talk to some of those people...that have college educations and thats the only job they can find.

lpast said:

Can you live on minimum wage or even up to 50% more than the minimum wage, before you decide read this article and look the map.
I am looking for another easier to read graph that shows apt costs in every state which in turn shows that at minimum wage FULL time workers cant pay for an apt
Also keep in mind most Minimum wage and low wage earners are part timers <walmarts>


Rent Affordability on Minimum Wage - NYTimes.com

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Not where I live, you can't. And the minimum wage here is about $10/hr. I'm pretty sure that most people who make minimum wage here a) live outside of the city (which is still expensive, but not as much), B) work multiple jobs, and/or C) live with a ****-ton of roommates in cramped environments. Probably some combination of all three of those things.

lpast said:

like my landscaper his boots and clothes arent lasting as long as yours

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Then give him a tip if you feel that he deserves more money based on the job he's doing. Find some luxury in your own life that is unnecessary and scrimp and give it to him if you feel he deserves it.

But that would be far harder than just demanding it of others.

jamesrage said:

The people doing that article must not be looking hard enough because in my city you can find a two bedroom apartment all bills paid for about 680 a month.
Brixton, Magnolia, Fulton Plaza,Highland Park Apartments for Rent | Tulsa OK Apartments on Apartmentfinder.com

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They are probably, although I cannot prove it, using a cost averaging of apartments that meet specifications for the area. The numbers, probably, would look a lot different if the averaged out only the bottom 50%, which would be a much better number. I think the bottom 30% would be the most reasonable, because those are the ones that people at minimum wage are actually going to be looking at.

However, only averaging out the apartments that might be affordable, or near affordable, to someone on minimum wage would no allow them to make it look so bad and encourage more people to vote for even more socialism in the government.

lpast said:

Look conservatives need to get their heads out...and stop living in this lala land where they believe everyone can work hard and go to college and blahblahblahblah...NO not everyone can go to college, no not everyone is bright enough to do college level work...not everyone can possibly afford to go to college...and NO NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE RICH and successful through hard work...that is a big BS story and just talking points for people that dont want to pay any taxs and dont give a chit if they step over bodies in the street

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You are right about not everybody is going to be rich and successful through hard work (but not going to college didn't stop me from busting my ass and owning my own business.I owned my first restaurant for 5 years before I even went to Le Cordon Bleu to get my degree in Culinary Arts) but that doesn't mean they can't be productive,develop a skill or hone their inborn talent and have a good living (that's what I did).
If one wants to better ones life,there are legal and legitimate ways to do it without relying on an agency (the government) that not only does big things badly,but does small things just as bad.

If a person is satisfied with living on minimum,I have no problem with that.If not the instead of bitching about it,do something about it.

lpast said:

Not everyone is you tess..first of all some people work HARD for minumum wage...like my landscaper his boots and clothes arent lasting as long as yours...depending on what you do...bottom line no one can live on minimum wage...
If the minimum wage was 12 bucks in some areas people couldnt live. and were only talking only about single people...theres lots of parents working for minimum wage..

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You keep saying "no one can live on minimum wage". I've proven it's possible to do so in my area. You can change the goal posts, but it doesn't kill my argument. I used a specific scenario to show exactly why it IS possible in my area to live on minimum wage, and HOW it would be possible to do so.

Minimum wage isn't designed nor intended for anybody anywhere to live comfortably. It's a wage floor designed so that MOST WORKERS can live comfortably. Most minimum wage jobs require very few expensive or hard-to-acquire skills, can be taught "on the job", and present little liability. They are jobs that can be easily filled and often have incredibly high turn over rates. In other words, they are not jobs designed for skilled, capable adults to fill long-term as a means of achieving some abstract financial solvency goal.

As others in this thread have said: If you want to earn more than minimum wage, make yourself worth more than minimum wage by acquiring skills and developing your abilities.

I began working in 2002 as a carphop at Sonic making $5.15/hour, 15 hours a week. Without a college education, without a network of "good buddy" types helping me advance, without a hand out I'm now the manager of my department, making almost 10x the yearly salary I averaged at Sonic. I did it through hard work, reliability, and learning.

I've lived on my own since I was 19. I've never (as an adult) taken any kind of government aid except my education grants, which I earn through maintaining a high GPA (I'm required to keep a 3.6 average GPA to keep my aid).

On the other hand, I have a friend in his 40s who works for Dominos delivering pizzas. In fact, he's never had a job much above that level. He's very smart, very capable, and has tons of marketable skills..but he's never cared enough about career success to apply himself to finding a higher paying job. Why the hell should I subsidize him? He made his choice. There's absolutely nothing holding him back except himself. You can't even blame it on the economy, because he's 40...he's been doing this since he was 16. He's ALWAYS sought easy, low-responsibility employment.

lpast said:

Look conservatives need to get their heads out...and stop living in this lala land where they believe everyone can work hard and go to college and blahblahblahblah...NO not everyone can go to college, no not everyone is bright enough to do college level work...not everyone can possibly afford to go to college...and NO NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE RICH and successful through hard work...that is a big BS story and just talking points for people that dont want to pay any taxs and dont give a chit if they step over bodies in the street

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I disagree, I think anyone who completes high school is capable of college level work.
Community college classes are affordable to just about anyone.
Even just putting some college on your resume can improve your chances.
Taking a few specialize classes related to your area may even get you a career.
If nothing else, anyone can wait tables, it teaches good people skills.
In 1979 when the minimum wage was $2.65/hr, I waited tables at a pizza place
for $1.90/hr, but would make about $25/6 hour shift in tips(and free Pizza).
The real problems come when you have a family that is counting on you to provide.
I have worked some UGLY jobs over the years, to make sure my kids were provided for.
The good news is, the USA is truly the land of opportunity, hard work and a good attitude do pay off.
It is the reason so many people still want to come here.