View Poll Results: When do you think the 2nd amendment will be repealed?

Voters
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  • within the year

    1 0.83%
  • next year

    2 1.65%
  • 5

    3 2.48%
  • 5-10

    4 3.31%
  • 10-20

    1 0.83%
  • 20-50

    1 0.83%
  • 50+

    4 3.31%
  • Never, things are fine as is

    60 49.59%
  • Never, too many stupid people in this country

    15 12.40%
  • We should have less gun laws and arm everyone to protect them selves!?!?!?!?

    30 24.79%
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Thread: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

  1. #171
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    If they are not required to win a war, they are not justified and the amendment people are banging on about seems to relate only to defence. Times have changed and you are no longer required to hold your own arms to defend your country. You pay big bucks for a military force to do that for you.

    Why do you want to pay twice?

    Governments have WMD and any weapons you may have are nothing by comparison. The only reason any rebel force exists in war is international law or it is a matter of time to close them down. WMD is not deployed because of the public/political/humane aversion to deploying WMD.

    US for example, could level ME but chooses not to. Should any government choose to deploy WMD, locally owned weapons would be ineffective. The only effective weapons are militarily held. Your privately held guns are useless for this purpose and no one is taken in by that assertion.

    It's not a justification for bearing arms. You will never be called on to deploy your semi automatic in defence of your country.
    Ex-President Gorbachev once stated that the only reason they didn't invade the US was because the populace was armed. And that is with in the past 30 years. How many other countries have not invaded due to our populace being armed but haven't openly admitted it?

    But that is only ONE reason for our populace to remain armed. Another is to protect ourselves from our government becoming a tyrannical government.
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  2. #172
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    WMDs aside, only MAD protects against them, and that is a no win scenario.

    The Supreme Court has upheld that the 2nd Amendment does apply to personal ownership outside of any "militia".
    So the Amendment can be amended (to exclude personal ownership as it was to include it)? You have a military. You don't need a crowd of gun happy loonies with delusions of freedom, running around shooting defenceless schoolchildren in order to gain attention. Save your tax dollar and your children.

    Not all arms are purchased with the intent of a militia use, either. There are many wild critters in some areas that we need to protect ourselves from. Personally, the only reason I purchased an "assault weapon" was for hunting, due to several medical problems, the ergonomics and weight make it more practical and easier to handle.
    No different than other countries. UK people live rurally also. The people with a legitimate use, may own an appropriate weapon as it requires to be licensed and secured. These people may not leave automatic or semi weapons lying about for difficult teenagers to use against family members, neighbours and innocent children.

    The fact that it can be used to hold off thieves and other less desirable persons intent on criminal mischief is only a bonus. If I was poor living in less desirable neighborhoods in a city, it would be very practical for defense also, gangers rarely, if ever come alone. Guns exist, they have always existed here and will continue to do so for a longtime into our future, they are not going away. So we can either find a way to deal with that fact in practical and doable ways or we can continue down the same path we are currently on.
    Do you think potential crime and teenagers don't exist in other countries? This is just laziness. Resolve the social issues. If you stop double payment of gun ownership and military, you may be able to fund an effective Police force to do what it should be doing for you.

    As much as some are wanting to cut military spending and focus upon social spending, I for one, am not willing to bet that in a decade or so, a major portion of our defense will not be upon us private owners of arms. Even if they are never used as a militia weapon, the very thought of more than a 100 million armed civilians who can become guerrilla fighters is enough to give any sane person thinking of invading us nightmares and deters them from think seriously about it.
    No one is seriously thinking about it and the only people who have attempted it in recent years were not deterred by that, but are prevented by your protective security services.

    There is no excuse for it other than an immature wish to play with guns. The culture needs to grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    The point is a final guard against tyranny, even from your own government. Its ALWAYS been the point.
    The point of it was to arm Protestants, when Catholics were already armed. That didn't relate to your government, it related to James 2nd.

    However, if you are still afraid the UK (your ex-Government) will storm the Whitehouse and make you all take afternoon tea on a daily basis, hold onto your personal arms.

    What makes you think the military will be as loyal to an idea if you begin removing the foundations of the idea? The more beholden to government you become the less resistance you have to government working its will on others. Both of these ideas would be at work---we already have expanding government and if you were to begin to remove the ability of the populace to defend itself you would be left with unchecked government that would incrementally just take more and more rights away "for the greater good".
    ....and that's what happens in Europe and all the other Westernised countries where people have no interest whatsoever in guns.

    Not.

    The people don't need guns to motivate politicians. The people wield power just by existing and a Government set up to be accountable is all you require. Of course despite the politically correct smoke screens, your political system isn't exactly accountable to the people, more the people with money.

    Peaceful assembly? Cant be peaceful so you cant do it.
    Freedom of speech? You are causing unrest that will cause others to break the law so you must be stopped.
    Freedom of the press? They are fomenting unrest so they must be controlled.
    Freedom of religion? Your religion is harmful to another, you must be fined until you quit.

    Etc etc, you can justify anything in the name of safety, but it doesn't make you any more free. Freedom isnt taken away all at once, its taken away one small piece at a time.
    I see the gun lobby trying to take it away from Piers Morgan, whilst not appearing overly concerned by the public threat your current gun law plainly constitutes against the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Ex-President Gorbachev once stated that the only reason they didn't invade the US was because the populace was armed. And that is with in the past 30 years. How many other countries have not invaded due to our populace being armed but haven't openly admitted it?

    But that is only ONE reason for our populace to remain armed. Another is to protect ourselves from our government becoming a tyrannical government.
    No one can even remember Gorbie. He's history and no one was ever afraid of him to begin with, the most West-friendly President ever. However, the US has the strongest military force in the world. Why would it fear attack from the gang that can't shoot straight? And what makes you think the peasants revolting is more intimidating than the strongest military force in the world?

    No logic whatsoever in any of that.

  3. #173
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    Attempt to avoid facts.
    there are no facts one can use to claim gun bans or UK style laws would do anything positive in the USA (disarming citizens and making them criminals might be seen as a positive to some)

    Scottish Whites are more violent per capita than white Americans btw. I think Scotland is one of the more violent first world nations there is

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there are no facts one can use to claim gun bans or UK style laws would do anything positive in the USA (disarming citizens and making them criminals might be seen as a positive to some)
    You mean you have no facts you can use to disclaim it.

    Scottish Whites are more violent per capita than white Americans btw. I think Scotland is one of the more violent first world nations there is
    And yet the murder stats are lower. Imagine what would be happening if we had guns.

  5. #175
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    The point of it was to arm Protestants, when Catholics were already armed. That didn't relate to your government, it related to James 2nd.

    However, if you are still afraid the UK (your ex-Government) will storm the Whitehouse and make you all take afternoon tea on a daily basis, hold onto your personal arms.
    The idea in the US constitution was to have an armed populace to be able to form a defense against any enemy both within and without---with no notice. It was a final block against government over reach because they got to observe it first hand against England. Your premise and your mockery is noted and dismissed.

  6. #176
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    Attempt to avoid facts.
    Scotland, how sweet.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there are no facts one can use to claim gun bans or UK style laws would do anything positive in the USA (disarming citizens and making them criminals might be seen as a positive to some)

    Scottish Whites are more violent per capita than white Americans btw. I think Scotland is one of the more violent first world nations there is
    They make great ale though.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by viv View Post
    You mean you have no facts you can use to disclaim it
    Since when does logic demand that one must have facts to disclaim an idea? Isn't it the other way around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    And yet the murder stats are lower. Imagine what would be happening if we had guns.
    The incidences of rape and assault are more than double per capita than the US. Considering the large number of crimes stopped by private gun ownership in the US, what is your argument that the people assaulted in the UK, and the women being raped, should not be allowed to defend themselves?
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. -Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by rudygetsplenty View Post
    Since when does logic demand that one must have facts to disclaim an idea? Isn't it the other way around?
    No.

    Feel free to show your facts to disclaim that logic.

    The incidences of rape and assault are more than double per capita than the US. Considering the large number of crimes stopped by private gun ownership in the US, what is your argument that the people assaulted in the UK, and the women being raped, should not be allowed to defend themselves?
    Bla bla bla...where are your facts and where are you pulling your lack of stats from?

    If you don't have any, I will just say no, they're half per capita what they are in US. I pulled that out of the air, same as you unless you can link to credible sources.

    Which are in any case irrelevant, as the vast majority of rape is committed indoors by someone the victim knows.
    Last edited by Viv; 12-27-12 at 09:19 AM.

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Scotland, how sweet.
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They make great ale though.
    Cheers...

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