View Poll Results: When do you think the 2nd amendment will be repealed?

Voters
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  • within the year

    1 0.83%
  • next year

    2 1.65%
  • 5

    3 2.48%
  • 5-10

    4 3.31%
  • 10-20

    1 0.83%
  • 20-50

    1 0.83%
  • 50+

    4 3.31%
  • Never, things are fine as is

    60 49.59%
  • Never, too many stupid people in this country

    15 12.40%
  • We should have less gun laws and arm everyone to protect them selves!?!?!?!?

    30 24.79%
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Thread: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

  1. #161
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    How many wars would the type of guns US people own, win these days? Really though..
    Pretty much any. Though more rare these days, there are indeed legally owned fully automatic guns, aka machine guns owned by private individuals. As well as some "artillery" pieces.

    We may be limited to the semi-automatic version, but even without conversion to full auto, which actually has very little utility, we own pretty much any type of small arms, that any military owns. Also a few, not so small arms. We also own more of them, with larger stockpiles of ammunition, than all the worlds militaries combined.

    Do we own modern fighter jets? No. Do we own modern missile systems? No. Are they required to win a war? No.

    The only war we could not win with privately owned arms is a Nuclear War, but then, there is no such thing as a winner in one of those.
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
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  3. #163
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Given that the 2nd Amendment implies the possession of military grade arms then anything short of nuclear war. You did not think in a war setting that only the guns would be used do you?
    Then you are saying you don't need the populace to own guns. You only "need" military grade arms.

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Pretty much any. Though more rare these days, there are indeed legally owned fully automatic guns, aka machine guns owned by private individuals. As well as some "artillery" pieces.

    We may be limited to the semi-automatic version, but even without conversion to full auto, which actually has very little utility, we own pretty much any type of small arms, that any military owns. Also a few, not so small arms. We also own more of them, with larger stockpiles of ammunition, than all the worlds militaries combined.

    Do we own modern fighter jets? No. Do we own modern missile systems? No. Are they required to win a war? No.

    The only war we could not win with privately owned arms is a Nuclear War, but then, there is no such thing as a winner in one of those.
    If they are not required to win a war, they are not justified and the amendment people are banging on about seems to relate only to defence. Times have changed and you are no longer required to hold your own arms to defend your country. You pay big bucks for a military force to do that for you.

    Why do you want to pay twice?

    Governments have WMD and any weapons you may have are nothing by comparison. The only reason any rebel force exists in war is international law or it is a matter of time to close them down. WMD is not deployed because of the public/political/humane aversion to deploying WMD.

    US for example, could level ME but chooses not to. Should any government choose to deploy WMD, locally owned weapons would be ineffective. The only effective weapons are militarily held. Your privately held guns are useless for this purpose and no one is taken in by that assertion.

    It's not a justification for bearing arms. You will never be called on to deploy your semi automatic in defence of your country.

  5. #165
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post

    It's not a justification for bearing arms. You will never be called on to deploy your semi automatic in defence of your country.
    If they try to confiscate them all, you might. Which is the point, after all.

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    If they try to confiscate them all, you might. Which is the point, after all.
    Not really. The point I thought, is the safety of children and other innocent people.

    With the example of European countries and many, many others, why would US suddenly become incapable of continuing to run a non oppressive state? How much of the US military do you believe would go along with that in reality? And if you're not in fear that your own military (staffed by your own families) would suddenly turn against you and implement a dictator state, then who is it you think is going to do that to you?

    It's nonsense, isn't it. Just is not a threat.

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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Hopefully never.

    The Swiss has a gun culture near the level of us (Literally the majority are required to be armed, nearly as high per capita gun ownership, and they host the biggest shooting festival in the world), and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Yes, the nation known for neutrality and peace. We could learn something.

    Banning guns isn't the answer, clearly we just need to change up the system. Promoting responsible ownership and so on. I don't own a gun, but may one of these days after doing some firearms training. I've heard of too many stories where owning a gun saved individuals and families from certain evils lurking in the night, I'd hate to think of the opposite happening. The right to bear arms isn't something we should throw away.
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  8. #168
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    If they are not required to win a war, they are not justified and the amendment people are banging on about seems to relate only to defence. Times have changed and you are no longer required to hold your own arms to defend your country. You pay big bucks for a military force to do that for you.

    Why do you want to pay twice?

    Governments have WMD and any weapons you may have are nothing by comparison. The only reason any rebel force exists in war is international law or it is a matter of time to close them down. WMD is not deployed because of the public/political/humane aversion to deploying WMD.

    US for example, could level ME but chooses not to. Should any government choose to deploy WMD, locally owned weapons would be ineffective. The only effective weapons are militarily held. Your privately held guns are useless for this purpose and no one is taken in by that assertion.

    It's not a justification for bearing arms. You will never be called on to deploy your semi automatic in defence of your country.
    WMDs aside, only MAD protects against them, and that is a no win scenario.

    The Supreme Court has upheld that the 2nd Amendment does apply to personal ownership outside of any "militia".

    Not all arms are purchased with the intent of a militia use, either. There are many wild critters in some areas that we need to protect ourselves from. Personally, the only reason I purchased an "assault weapon" was for hunting, due to several medical problems, the ergonomics and weight make it more practical and easier to handle.

    The fact that it can be used to hold off thieves and other less desirable persons intent on criminal mischief is only a bonus. If I was poor living in less desirable neighborhoods in a city, it would be very practical for defense also, gangers rarely, if ever come alone. Guns exist, they have always existed here and will continue to do so for a longtime into our future, they are not going away. So we can either find a way to deal with that fact in practical and doable ways or we can continue down the same path we are currently on.

    As much as some are wanting to cut military spending and focus upon social spending, I for one, am not willing to bet that in a decade or so, a major portion of our defense will not be upon us private owners of arms. Even if they are never used as a militia weapon, the very thought of more than a 100 million armed civilians who can become guerrilla fighters is enough to give any sane person thinking of invading us nightmares and deters them from think seriously about it.
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  9. #169
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    Not really. The point I thought, is the safety of children and other innocent people.

    With the example of European countries and many, many others, why would US suddenly become incapable of continuing to run a non oppressive state? How much of the US military do you believe would go along with that in reality? And if you're not in fear that your own military (staffed by your own families) would suddenly turn against you and implement a dictator state, then who is it you think is going to do that to you?

    It's nonsense, isn't it. Just is not a threat.
    The point is a final guard against tyranny, even from your own government. Its ALWAYS been the point.

    What makes you think the military will be as loyal to an idea if you begin removing the foundations of the idea? The more beholden to government you become the less resistance you have to government working its will on others. Both of these ideas would be at work---we already have expanding government and if you were to begin to remove the ability of the populace to defend itself you would be left with unchecked government that would incrementally just take more and more rights away "for the greater good".

    Peaceful assembly? Cant be peaceful so you cant do it.
    Freedom of speech? You are causing unrest that will cause others to break the law so you must be stopped.
    Freedom of the press? They are fomenting unrest so they must be controlled.
    Freedom of religion? Your religion is harmful to another, you must be fined until you quit.

    Etc etc, you can justify anything in the name of safety, but it doesn't make you any more free. Freedom isnt taken away all at once, its taken away one small piece at a time.

  10. #170
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    Re: How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
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