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Gun Control

Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 39.9%
  • No

    Votes: 74 50.0%
  • Others

    Votes: 15 10.1%

  • Total voters
    148
Depends upon the extent of the potential. If they could largely prevent the approximately 20 mass killings a year in the US? Probably.

I don't generally side with the people who say we need guns to defend ourselves from a potentially oppressive government, but, given all the historical evidence, their arguments do have merit.
 
I voted "Other" since the question assumes a "potential to save lives" that has not been shown.

I'm sure they don't believe that - they believe that police will be able to arrest (some of the) said criminals before they commit the violent crimes because they are found carrying a gun. They also believe if there is less demand and availability in general then the number of guns owned by violent criminals will decrease.



As usual, though, my stance is there should be no limits on gun ownership of any kind. If I had the money for a tank I should be able to buy one - assuming I'm a non-felon (violent crimes only) that's mentally fit.


Is already illegal for criminals to possess weapons
 
Depends upon the extent of the potential. If they could largely prevent the approximately 20 mass killings a year in the US? Probably.

I don't generally side with the people who say we need guns to defend ourselves from a potentially oppressive government, but, given all the historical evidence, their arguments do have merit.
The arguments have more than merit, they have almost absolute precedence. The only countries I know of that haven't gone completely tyranical after gun control are Australia and the U.K., though they do not have the liberties they used to, the reason they can't be considered completely tyranical is the lack of genocide and some continued property rights.
 
Is already illegal for criminals to possess weapons
Criminals, yes, but not potential violent criminals. If you're going to commit mass murder then at some point you need to acquire the weapons/materials to carry it out. If it's possible to legally purchase said weapons/materials then it's obviously easier for the potential mass murderer to also purchase them (or steal them). Also, at some point, you have to transport said weapons/materials from the point of purchase, then (usually) store them somewhere, then transport them to the scene of the mass murder. Transportation and storage also represent an opportunities for authorities to stop the mass killing.


But, again, my position is that all weapons should be available - period, end of story, no limits - except checking for violent felonies and sound mind.
 
I concede the wisdom of that statement when applied to the rank and file gun control supporters

the leaders of the ARC-they have thought their conspiracy against our rights out long and hard

I'm curious, is the Supreme Court in this conspiracy? Because, legally, speaking, they've declared twice in the last decade that handguns and weapons primarily involved with the defense of your hearth and home are protected under the 2nd amendment. Not weapons designed to prevent the government from doing whatever the hell you think they're going to do. Not for going out and hunting even. It's in case some guy comes into you house with bad intentions.

With that being said, in my opinion, we should restrict as many weapons, and prevent as many people from getting guns as the data shows is advisable (which would mean decreases gun violence overall). Excuse the language I used, I have no interest in removing all weapons.

I can already hear everyone telling me that in the states with the loosest gun regulations, there is the least amount of violence. However when you look at the demographics, its not because of the regulations as much as the population. The states with the lowest violence tend to be Midwestern or Southern states. A largely homogeneous population, and they're ideologically similar. Then you look at places like Chicago, LA and New York; they're completely different situations.

That being said, we need to have the federal government mandate some very broad laws about who can and cannot own guns (a little more specific than now, in my opinion). They need to mandate use of the NICS, and send states a mandate to come up with their own laws, and give them a certain amount of years to reduce gun violence by whatever amount. Then the States could look at their situations, and figure out how to meet those goals.

Also, looking at the numbers and statistics on concealed carry laws, I think every state should become a shall-issue state. Concealed weapons do almost nothing but good, especially when there is a relatively strict process to obtaining them.

Lastly, I think we need to either end gun shows around the country, or introduce regulations for who can and cannot obtain weapons there.
 
I'm curious, is the Supreme Court in this conspiracy? Because, legally, speaking, they've declared twice in the last decade that handguns and weapons primarily involved with the defense of your hearth and home are protected under the 2nd amendment. Not weapons designed to prevent the government from doing whatever the hell you think they're going to do. Not for going out and hunting even. It's in case some guy comes into you house with bad intentions.

With that being said, in my opinion, we should restrict as many weapons, and prevent as many people from getting guns as the data shows is advisable (which would mean decreases gun violence overall). Excuse the language I used, I have no interest in removing all weapons.

I can already hear everyone telling me that in the states with the loosest gun regulations, there is the least amount of violence. However when you look at the demographics, its not because of the regulations as much as the population. The states with the lowest violence tend to be Midwestern or Southern states. A largely homogeneous population, and they're ideologically similar. Then you look at places like Chicago, LA and New York; they're completely different situations.

That being said, we need to have the federal government mandate some very broad laws about who can and cannot own guns (a little more specific than now, in my opinion). They need to mandate use of the NICS, and send states a mandate to come up with their own laws, and give them a certain amount of years to reduce gun violence by whatever amount. Then the States could look at their situations, and figure out how to meet those goals.

Also, looking at the numbers and statistics on concealed carry laws, I think every state should become a shall-issue state. Concealed weapons do almost nothing but good, especially when there is a relatively strict process to obtaining them.

Lastly, I think we need to either end gun shows around the country, or introduce regulations for who can and cannot obtain weapons there.

the laws as to gun shows are the same as any place else in a state so you demonstrate you are not particularly up to speed on the legal issues.

your rant about limiting guns is silly and demonstrates you believe in an incremental banning

you also contradict yourself concerning concealed weapons.
 
the laws as to gun shows are the same as any place else in a state so you demonstrate you are not particularly up to speed on the legal issues.

At gun shows, it is far easier to procure a firearm than at a gun shop. Ergo, you are wrong.

your rant about limiting guns is silly and demonstrates you believe in an incremental banning

That's right, I forgot your entire debate style is founded upon not rebuting points. I presented a nuanced approach to gun control. You said, "its silly, fallacy fallacy fallacy."

you also contradict yourself concerning concealed weapons.

No, its called nuance. There is a large difference between gun possession, and the right to carry a concealed firearm.

Now, would you care to explain how the facts shows I'm wrong?
 
At gun shows, it is far easier to procure a firearm than at a gun shop. Ergo, you are wrong.



That's right, I forgot your entire debate style is founded upon not rebuting points. I presented a nuanced approach to gun control. You said, "its silly, fallacy fallacy fallacy."



No, its called nuance. There is a large difference between gun possession, and the right to carry a concealed firearm.

Now, would you care to explain how the facts shows I'm wrong?

what a stupid comment-gun shops are FFLs requiring back ground checks. dealers at gun shows have to follow the same rules. Private sellers at gun shows don't have to do background checks at shows or at their homes or in the middle of the inner city at 2AM

Its hard to do the good thing of carrying concealed weapons as you advocate when its hard to possess them

logical fail on your part
 
what a stupid comment-gun shops are FFLs requiring back ground checks. dealers at gun shows have to follow the same rules. Private sellers at gun shows don't have to do background checks at shows or at their homes or in the middle of the inner city at 2AM
I put in bold what I'm talking about, but completely went over your head, despite you actually saying it. The other part is what law enforcement needs to look at.

Its hard to do the good thing of carrying concealed weapons as you advocate when its hard to possess them

Turning may-issue states into shall-issue states makes it easier to get a concealed weapons permit. I made no comment on the actual state-by-state guidelines for obtaining such a permit. Once again, you're putting words in my mouth, and then rebutting them. Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.

logical fail on your part

Because your inability to properly rebut my points with facts and data, and instead resorting to childish fallacies is so logical right? :roll:

What would you have us do instead of what I presented?
 
what a stupid comment-gun shops are FFLs requiring back ground checks. dealers at gun shows have to follow the same rules. Private sellers at gun shows don't have to do background checks at shows or at their homes or in the middle of the inner city at 2AM
I put in bold what I'm talking about, but completely went over your head, despite you actually saying it. The other part is what law enforcement needs to look at.



Turning may-issue states into shall-issue states makes it easier to get a concealed weapons permit. I made no comment on the actual state-by-state guidelines for obtaining such a permit. Once again, you're putting words in my mouth, and then rebutting them. Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.



Because your inability to properly rebut my points with facts and data, and instead resorting to childish fallacies is so logical right? :roll:

What would you have us do instead of what I presented?

Nothing you can post on guns can possibly "go over my head" since your posts have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge on a subject that I am expert on. PRIOR to 1993 NO ONE was required to do background checks on anyone buying a firearm. Congress decided to change 200 years+ of rules by requiring FFLs to do background checks. THis was enforceable because FFLs have a duty that is easily ascertained by other records to keep a log of all weapons coming in and going out of their businesses. Congress therefore refused to require people who have no legal duty to record weapons they buy or sell to conduct background checks.


you blathered on about how great it would be to make it much tougher to get weapons. Why? so that honest people are disarmed?
 
We need to make sure that law abiding, mentally healthy citizens who are capable of shooting a gun are able to acquire a gun, while on the other hand make it much harder for someone who doesn't meet this criteria to get a gun. We also need to only allow people to legally purchase non semi-auto / auto guns. Because people we don't allow to get guns can get guns illegally, we have to be careful not to restrict the kind of person who follows the three criteria stated above from getting guns because the best way to protect people from a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
 
We need to make sure that law abiding, mentally healthy citizens who are capable of shooting a gun are able to acquire a gun, while on the other hand make it much harder for someone who doesn't meet this criteria to get a gun. We also need to only allow people to legally purchase non semi-auto / auto guns. Because people we don't allow to get guns can get guns illegally, we have to be careful not to restrict the kind of person who follows the three criteria stated above from getting guns because the best way to protect people from a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

what idiocy. why should honest people not be able to buy a semi auto
 
what idiocy. why should honest people not be able to buy a semi auto

If an honest person who is mentally healthy (at least as far as anyone can tell), "snaps", and goes into a crowded place with a semi-auto he / she is going to do a lot more damage than if they had non semi auto, while on the other hand, an honest person with a pistol is still able to put a stop to a gunman with one shot.
 
If an honest person who is mentally healthy (at least as far as anyone can tell), "snaps", and goes into a crowded place with a semi-auto he / she is going to do a lot more damage than if they had non semi auto, while on the other hand, an honest person with a pistol is still able to put a stop to a gunman with one shot.

so you want to ban 95% of the handguns being sold today, and half the target shotguns

I believe you have no clue what a semi auto is and there are more pistols that are semi autos than rifles or shotguns.

and you have obviously no idea how fast someone can shoot a pump shotgun which can and often holds more rounds than most semi auto shotguns
 
If an honest person who is mentally healthy (at least as far as anyone can tell), "snaps", and goes into a crowded place with a semi-auto he / she is going to do a lot more damage than if they had non semi auto, while on the other hand, an honest person with a pistol is still able to put a stop to a gunman with one shot.
Wrong. A semi-auto is one trigger pull, one shot, no more dangerous than a revolver. You don't need to be telling people what rights they should have when you repeat this nonsense.
 
Nothing you can post on guns can possibly "go over my head"

Sure :roll:

since your posts have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge on a subject that I am expert on.

And that's exactly why you choose to create strawmen and attack them instead of sing your expertise? Or maybe you have been using your expert knowledge all along...

PRIOR to 1993 NO ONE was required to do background checks on anyone buying a firearm. Congress decided to change 200 years+ of rules by requiring FFLs to do background checks. THis was enforceable because FFLs have a duty that is easily ascertained by other records to keep a log of all weapons coming in and going out of their businesses. Congress therefore refused to require people who have no legal duty to record weapons they buy or sell to conduct background checks.

Wonderful. Now, take a stance on your history lesson so I can teach you a lesson. Give me a target to shoot at :lol:

you blathered on about how great it would be to make it much tougher to get weapons. Why? so that honest people are disarmed?

Yeah, I just want to make it easier for when all us lefties invade your homes, and let criminals have a field day :doh
 
what idiocy. why should honest people not be able to buy a semi auto

Because the f*cking Supreme Court said so. D.C. v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago. Defense of one's hearth and home. You don't need a Bushmaster to defend your home. And if you do, you probably have bigger problems to worry about than what Congress is doing.
 
Sure :roll:



And that's exactly why you choose to create strawmen and attack them instead of sing your expertise? Or maybe you have been using your expert knowledge all along...



Wonderful. Now, take a stance on your history lesson so I can teach you a lesson. Give me a target to shoot at :lol:



Yeah, I just want to make it easier for when all us lefties invade your homes, and let criminals have a field day :doh

we haven't seen much of you lately, what exactly is your game on guns.

what exactly is the gun show loophole
 
Because the f*cking Supreme Court said so. D.C. v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago. Defense of one's hearth and home. You don't need a Bushmaster to defend your home. And if you do, you probably have bigger problems to worry about than what Congress is doing.

what gaping stupidity. the Supreme court never said that honest people cannot buy semi autos

and I certainly don't need someone who has no clue what a semi auto is telling me what I need.

Tell me what weapons does the second amendment protect in your mind?
 
Wrong. A semi-auto is one trigger pull, one shot, no more dangerous than a revolver. You don't need to be telling people what rights they should have when you repeat this nonsense.

So your saying a semi auto pistol with 8+ bullets is just as dangerous as a revolver with 6 bullets that takes longer to reload?
 
So your saying a semi auto pistol with 8+ bullets is just as dangerous as a revolver with 6 bullets that takes longer to reload?

you don't know much about weapons do you?

I often carry a revolver despite owning dozens of semi autos

why? revolvers do not jam

here try this on for size

 
we haven't seen much of you lately, what exactly is your game on guns.

I like guns. I like shooting them. I prefer shooting rifles to pistols. But I don't think we have a constitutional right to all guns. Initially, the 2nd amendment undoubtedly had in mind resistance against a tyrannical government, and I think it's foolish to claim otherwise. But as the times have changed, the practical application of the 2nd amendment is defense of one's self and family, and this right is especially strong in one's home. I'm for having concealed firearms, I'd be fine with making it easier for people to get them, especially in places like Chicago, LA and NYC, because in those places, the criminals won't bother applying for a permit, and honest law-abiding citizens will be at a disadvantage.

But for personal defense, you don't need to be lugging around an assault weapon, rocket launcher, or sawed-off shotgun. We shouldn't be able to easily overpower police; they should be at a distinct advantage, in terms of firepower.

what exactly is the gun show loophole[/QUOTE]

Like you said, private sellers at gun shows don't go through the same regulations as commercial sellers. I understand that if we prevent such transactions form occurring at gun shows, they can take place elsewhere, but in my opinion, we don't need to put up shows with signs inviting people to come get guns without going through proper checks.
 
I like guns. I like shooting them. I prefer shooting rifles to pistols. But I don't think we have a constitutional right to all guns. Initially, the 2nd amendment undoubtedly had in mind resistance against a tyrannical government, and I think it's foolish to claim otherwise. But as the times have changed, the practical application of the 2nd amendment is defense of one's self and family, and this right is especially strong in one's home. I'm for having concealed firearms, I'd be fine with making it easier for people to get them, especially in places like Chicago, LA and NYC, because in those places, the criminals won't bother applying for a permit, and honest law-abiding citizens will be at a disadvantage.

But for personal defense, you don't need to be lugging around an assault weapon, rocket launcher, or sawed-off shotgun. We shouldn't be able to easily overpower police; they should be at a distinct advantage, in terms of firepower.

what exactly is the gun show loophole

Like you said, private sellers at gun shows don't go through the same regulations as commercial sellers. I understand that if we prevent such transactions form occurring at gun shows, they can take place elsewhere, but in my opinion, we don't need to put up shows with signs inviting people to come get guns without going through proper checks.

what's an assault weapon
 
So your saying a semi auto pistol with 8+ bullets is just as dangerous as a revolver with 6 bullets that takes longer to reload?

lol Well yeah! More reliable and concealable, and more stopping power.

Compare a 357 magnum to a 9mm :lol:
 
what gaping stupidity. the Supreme court never said that honest people cannot buy semi autos

and I certainly don't need someone who has no clue what a semi auto is telling me what I need.

Tell me what weapons does the second amendment protect in your mind?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. The Supreme Court has stated that the 2nd amendment covers weapons used for self-defense. Some semi-automatic weapons do not fall under that category.
 
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