View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
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    102 50.00%
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    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #951
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    What does the other crimes mention have to do with anything? Well, this a gun control thread relating to all gun violence, not just Mass shootings.
    You folks on the other end of the spectrum would do well to make up your mind about this. Here you claim you want to make this about all gun violence. And thus any solution must curb all gun violence or its not passing your muster. However, right on this debate site are at least two threads started by gun advocates -one by Goshin and one by Lee White - in which they law down the restriction that they do NOT want to hear about any law which will expressly NOT prevent Connecticut atrocities. Its not enough to come up with a suggestion that will do some good. They want it to make sure it prevents future atrocities just like this one or else they do not want to entertain it and will mock anything else that is brought up.

    So which is it?

    Which way does the right want it?

    Or do you want it both ways and it depends on which argument allows you to win that particular point at that particular point in time?

    You also seem to be advocating for adopting a foreign law that you admit to not knowing the details of.
    I am NOT advocating that we copy this foreign law. I simply pointed out that another nation similar to ours adopted a law for a specific goal and it achieved that goal.


    You equate some towns restrictions with nation wide restriction/laws. You say it is not a curtailment on the right to own guns, but it clearly is taking away the right to purchase many different guns.
    The Constitution never guarantees the right of a citizen to purchase and bear any gun of their choice. To pretend that it does is false and a lie.

    You also don't seem to understand what they Clinton era "ban" really said. Not all "assault weapons" were baned from new sales, the ban only affected new sales, not the transfer or sale of pre-existing arms or magazines.
    Yes. I understand that.


    Was the ban ever constitutionally challenged in the Supreme Court?
    I find no reversal of it by the Supreme Court. And it was on the books for a full decade allowing for plenty of challenges if anyone saw fit or had reasonable grounds to do so. There might be an excellent reason why no challenge ever reached the court.


    What reducing affect do you think a new ban would have on pre-existing guns and magazines?
    None.Sorry that is wrong. It makes them more valuable and the price will go up.

    You also seem to equate "assault weapons" with mass shootings. Tell me, what "assault weapon" was used in Tucson? What firearms were used at columbine and did they get them through legal means? Were "assault weapons" the only ones used during any of the mass shootings?
    I am NOT equating anything. I am relating what happened in Australia and what they did and the results they achieved.
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  2. #952
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    We also had the highest rates of gun ownership. We also had an extremely low murder rate (probably other violent crimes).
    We have nearly the highest homicide rate of the major industrial states, 4 times higher than Western Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #953
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Again there was no significant challenge to the ban because there was no significant limitation applied by it.
    That is because there is no Constitutional basis for a challenge in the USSC. They let the lower courts ruling against the challenge stand.
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  4. #954
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Exactly...which means that the real way to reduce crime is to improve education and reduce poverty rather than attacking inanimate objects.
    And you and your ilk will be the first voice to reduce govt programs for education and reducing poverty.

    What else you got?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #955
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The weapons the police use are selected for the very same reason that they are perfectly applicable to home/self defense. So, we disagree.
    If you are suggesting that the public be required to take the same mental evaluations and background checks that police do, I would have no problem with the public also having high capacity magazines.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #956
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you are suggesting that the public be required to take the same mental evaluations and background checks that police do, I would have no problem with the public also having high capacity magazines.
    Well good for you. Now maybe you should understand that they take those evaluations and background checks due to the high stress environment they work in, not for the weapons they carry.

  7. #957
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    And you and your ilk will be the first voice to reduce govt programs for education and reducing poverty.
    You would be wrong, of course. But regardless of the alleged lack of support for those programs, your plan of banning firearms won't work.

    What else you got?
    Tell me when you have something, first....

  8. #958
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That is because there is no Constitutional basis for a challenge in the USSC. They let the lower courts ruling against the challenge stand.
    Uhm, no. There was no challenge for the reason I already stated.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well good for you. Now maybe you should understand that they take those evaluations and background checks due to the high stress environment they work in, not for the weapons they carry.
    And that for the state to deny you the exercise of your right until such a time that the state determines you are not breaking the law in doing so is a form of prior restraint - which violates the Constitution.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You folks on the other end of the spectrum would do well to make up your mind about this. Here you claim you want to make this about all gun violence. And thus any solution must curb all gun violence or its not passing your muster. However, right on this debate site are at least two threads started by gun advocates -one by Goshin and one by Lee White - in which they law down the restriction that they do NOT want to hear about any law which will expressly NOT prevent Connecticut atrocities. Its not enough to come up with a suggestion that will do some good. They want it to make sure it prevents future atrocities just like this one or else they do not want to entertain it and will mock anything else that is brought up.

    So which is it?

    Which way does the right want it?

    Or do you want it both ways and it depends on which argument allows you to win that particular point at that particular point in time?

    You also seem to be advocating for adopting a foreign law that you admit to not knowing the details of.
    I am NOT advocating that we copy this foreign law. I simply pointed out that another nation similar to ours adopted a law for a specific goal and it achieved that goal.




    The Constitution never guarantees the right of a citizen to purchase and bear any gun of their choice. To pretend that it does is false and a lie.



    Yes. I understand that.




    I find no reversal of it by the Supreme Court. And it was on the books for a full decade allowing for plenty of challenges if anyone saw fit or had reasonable grounds to do so. There might be an excellent reason why no challenge ever reached the court.




    None.Sorry that is wrong. It makes them more valuable and the price will go up.



    I am NOT equating anything. I am relating what happened in Australia and what they did and the results they achieved.
    I don't know which way the "right" wants it, I'm not on the "right", so ask them, not me.

    I want solutions that have proven to actually do "good" in America. Foreign countries have never had the same laws that we have. Yes, the ban might of worked in Australia, but it doesn't take into account what laws already existed there, such as hand gun laws. Nor does it prove that such a law would work in the US.

    There is no doubt that taking all guns away would result in lower crime rates being committed with guns, however, that is an impossibility in America. The only proven way to reduce violent crime in America, including mass shootings, is to arm more people and give them unfettered self defense and defense of others.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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