View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #871
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    Re: Gun Control

    Building memorials is a waste of time, money, and emotion. National discussion on a
    constitutional right? Bunk. Putting armed guards in schools, fine idea. Take funds
    from those given to our clapped-out "allies" including Israel,etc.

  2. #872
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    where did I advocate that measure?

    All I have advocated here is
    1- a national discussion about the issue of the Second Amendment
    To what end other than to impact it's applicability? I agree that mental health issues should be a bar to firearm possesion, however I worry at the potential abuse of such a measure.

    2- building a memorial to the dead innocents
    3- putting an armed police person in every school - which was then endorsed days later by Wayne La Pierre of the NRA
    I agree with both of these. In fact, in regards to #2, like you...I brought this up several days before La Pierre did.

    Those were my proposals.
    Right, and it's mainly number one that we disagree on.

  3. #873
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    There is no difference in the equipment they need to do their jobs and protect themselves then there is in the equipment needed to protect myself and my family. Firearms are not single purpose tools. The same firearm can be used in a number of roles.

    For example, I can use a hammer to build a shed or to kill an intruder. See, more than one purpose. A tool is a tool.
    Police officers do not have the equipment they do because of their right to bear arms under the Second Amendment. They have the equipment and arms they do because of the job they do as designed by the peoples government.

    To pretend that anyone can then claim that they have a right to the same equipment when they DO NOT do the same job and are NOT employed in that capacity by the peoples government is simply faulty thinking and has nothing at all to do with anyones Constitutional rights. You do not have any right to demand to match people because they have the use of something on their job.
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  4. #874
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No one is stripping anyone of their rights, if that were the case the USSC would have overturned the 1994 ban.
    Again there was no significant challenge to the ban because there was no significant limitation applied by it. The limit to magazine capacity and to the appearance of a weapon has little, if any impact on it's effectiveness. Further, it limited the sale of certain items it did not bar people from buying available items....so, there really was nothing to challenge.

  5. #875
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Police officers do not have the equipment they do because of their right to bear arms under the Second Amendment. They have the equipment and arms they do because of the job they do as designed by the peoples government.

    To pretend that anyone can then claim that they have a right to the same equipment when they DO NOT do the same job and are NOT employed in that capacity by the peoples government is simply faulty thinking and has nothing at all to do with anyones Constitutional rights. You do not have any right to demand to match people because they have the use of something on their job.
    The faulty thinking is that a weapon is only suited for one purpose.

  6. #876
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    To what end other than to impact it's applicability? I agree that mental health issues should be a bar to firearm possesion, however I worry at the potential abuse of such a measure.



    I agree with both of these. In fact, in regards to #2, like you...I brought this up several days before La Pierre did.



    Right, and it's mainly number one that we disagree on.
    Glad to see we agree on a couple things Mac. Like Jim Steinman wrote and Meat Loaf sang - two out of three ain't bad.

    We need a national discussion to help determine what it is the American people believe about the Second Amendment and its role in our society. For far too long now we have not had any such national discussion. Instead, the agenda and everything about it including the definition of terms has been determined by the gun lobby and the gun culture around it.

    For example: should technology be the determining factor in what weapons are going to be in America?

    Is Justice Scalia correct in his off bench comments that some weapons may indeed be removed and not allowed?

    Are guns an the proliferation of them part of the problem or are they being scapegoated?

    Do we want people to be armed on a level with the police and military in case we need another revolution and need to fight them in the streets of our cities and towns?

    Are present laws on things like gun shows working or do they need to be revisited?

    All that needs to be part of a national conversation. And I believe Wayne La Pierre just helped start it on Friday.
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  7. #877
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We need a national discussion to help determine what it is the American people believe about the Second Amendment and its role in our society. For far too long now we have not had any such national discussion. Instead, the agenda and everything about it including the definition of terms has been determined by the gun lobby and the gun culture around it.
    It hasn't been all that long...

    For example: should technology be the determining factor in what weapons are going to be in America?
    No.

    Is Justice Scalia correct in his off bench comments that some weapons may indeed be removed and not allowed?
    Yes.

    Are guns an the proliferation of them part of the problem or are they being scapegoated?
    They're being scapegoated. Everyone wants to "do something" about what occured in Newtown and elsewhere. The easy target, the red herring, is the firearm itself....despite every indication that limiting them is ineffective.

    Do we want people to be armed on a level with the police and military in case we need another revolution and need to fight them in the streets of our cities and towns?
    For the most part, yes, and that is very much in keeping with the second amendment.

    Are present laws on things like gun shows working or do they need to be revisited?
    Certain loopholes, like private sale, should be addressed if they are proven to being abused.

    All that needs to be part of a national conversation. And I believe Wayne La Pierre just helped start it on Friday.
    I agree, and it should be an indication that the NRA supports the LEGAL use of firearms.

  8. #878
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The faulty thinking is that a weapon is only suited for one purpose.
    I believe the faulty thinking is that one particular weapon is the only one that can be used for a purpose and you have a right to it despite a buffet table filled with others that will do the job.

    Yes, some people scapegoat weapons. Some people hate guns and are anti-gun. Both ends of the spectrum has adherents. We need to involve the greater majority of people in the middle who I think believe that guns are part of America and people need them for a variety of reasons including
    self defense
    home protection
    sports
    hunting
    recreation

    But at the same time they are concerned about a nation where there now may be as many guns as people and there seems to be much negative side effects from their use - or abuse if your prefer.

    And I do think the issue of fighting the government so you need an armory is a legit issue that should be debated. Yes, I understand how we got here as a country. Yes, I understand that people had guns as a last resort against a tyrannical government. I also want it discussed and asked that with that in mind, do the American people believe that we should use that as the rationalization/reason/excuse to allow people to have high powered weaponry in our society or can we make some accommodation and compromise where we stand firmly behind ownership of some weapons and do not allow others as having no real purpose in our society?

    I think this needs a thorough and public discussion.

    I agree, and it should be an indication that the NRA supports the LEGAL use of firearms.
    And it needs to include what firearms should indeed be LEGAL.

    Like the implications or not - guns are different. I abuse liquor and I make an ass of myself and have to get my suit dry cleaned from vomit. I watch too much porn and I get horny and maybe a bit obnoxious. I abuse guns and people can and do die.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-23-12 at 08:40 AM.
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  9. #879
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I believe the faulty thinking is that one particular weapon is the only one that can be used for a purpose and you have a right to it despite a buffet table filled with others that will do the job.
    The weapons the police use are selected for the very same reason that they are perfectly applicable to home/self defense. So, we disagree.

  10. #880
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The faulty thinking is that a weapon is only suited for one purpose.
    Or that the purpose of bearing arms differs for law enforcement officers and law abiding civilians; as they are exactly the same - detering crime by the use of deadly force in appropriate situations. One may, rightly, argue that the legal use of dealy force for civilians is more limitted than for that of LEOs, in that LEOs may act on legal warrants, rather than only in the immediate response to current threats, but that is a minor distinction at best.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 12-23-12 at 08:46 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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