View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #801
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I would never support a complete ban on guns as it would violate the Second Amendment.
    so tell us what limits you support

    The last pronouncement I saw was that if someone had ONE gun, a single shot 22, their second amendment rights were fulfilled and banning them from owning any other weapon still would not prevent them from "ENJOYING THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS


    tell me Haymarket-to many of us who actually really care about this issue, we believe that the founders (as well as the MILLER COURT) decreed that all citizens of suitable age should be able to own the standard infantryman's individual weapon. In one era that was a smoothbore musket with bayonet, then a rifled musket, than a bolt action rifle or lever action rifle, then a semi automatic battle rifle, and then a select fire carbine.

    if that is so, what would your answer be other than to pretend that the second amendment really did not say that

  2. #802
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not if the ban is passed on high capacity magazines. I never said every semi-automatic would accept a high capacity mag, I said, "and they usually accept high capacity mags."
    It has nothing to do with a ban or "usually" anything. High capacity magazines or a rifle or pistols ability to accept them have nothing at all to do with a weapon being semi automatic.

    How can any one person post so much bull****.
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  3. #803
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh BTW Haymarket, if i were intending to assassinate a politician after a war against guns was launched as opposed to defending myself against gangs, active shooters or looters I would use a far different weapon. an "assault weapon" whatever that may be is not ideal for taking out a politician who is surrounded by armed guards. For that, the best weapon is say a Lazzeroni War Bird or a Barrett 50 or an AI 300 Mag. stuff that you can make head shots at long distances with or stuff that is so powerful that it will blow right through body armor 800M out.

    those weapons have almost no self defense use against criminals.

    In case your are interested (since I doubt you have ever heard of a Lazzeroni) I have included a link of some of their current rifles. they cost a lot of money and take months to get



    Lazzeroni Rifles
    Very revealing that you have given the assassination of government officials such thorough thought to go as far as selecting the weapon.
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  4. #804
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so tell us what limits you support
    I would be glad to review any formal proposal for a law you would have me look at. Please do present one.

    What I did announce support of was my idea of five days ago to place an armed police officer in every school in America. Yesterday, Wayne La Pierre of the NRA came out for that same idea. My idea turns out to also be the NRA idea.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  5. #805
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are not listening.

    What it is is simple: a police officer has the weapons he has NOT to exercise any Constitutional right - but to do a professional job they are hired to do.

    You, me, all other civilians are NOT professional police officers. As such, we have no right to the make aclaim to have the same weaponry as a police officer does because that weaponry has not a darn thing to do with the second amendment and the exercise of it.

    As such, your argument is a political one and NOT a Constitutional one. You are entitled to it. But it is not a Constitutional argument nor a legal one. It is a political one based on envy of the weaponry carried by professional police officers performing their job.

    It has NOTHING at all to do with value judgments about who is more valuable. That is silly and irrelevant as that is NOT why officers have the weapons.

    Of course I am not listening, I am reading. and I know damn well that if someone asks me why I choose a 17 shot (Smith and Wesson 9mm-same as the biggest police department in my area uses) pistol for self defense or a 20 shot Rock River DEA carbine (yeah I have the same one the DEA is issued except mine does not have the three shot burst that SOME DEA carbines have) it is because I respect the decisions of those organizations.

    They tested numerous weapons and concluded that those were the most suitable self defense weapons available for their employees to use in an urban environment. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the trials they put those weapons through proving the value and reliability of the weans.

    And it is a constitutional argument that I can own what other civilians use. anything up to and including what an infantryman is issued as his primary individual weapon is obviously protected by the second amendment.

    so the burden is now on you to show WHY is should not be able to own these weapons that I currently possess.

  6. #806
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    Re: Gun Control

    For those who are interested this is turtle endorsed self defense carbine


    Rock River Arms: Pro-Series Government

    note they have a version that meets the Silly Awb laws in non-free states

    those have a pinned rather than collapsing stock and now flash hider

  7. #807
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not if the ban is passed on high capacity magazines. I never said every semi-automatic would accept a high capacity mag, I said, "and they usually accept high capacity mags."
    A rifle will "usually accept" whatever has the proper mechanism designed to lock into and cycle rounds through it. That can be 10 or 15 rounds or 500. It doesn't matter.

    Now tell me why for some reason this:

    Gun Control-products1714-500x334-66673-jpg

    is more deadly than this?

    Gun Control-501px-postbanar15a2standard-jpg

    The first has a high capacity magazine (well drum really), and it has the suppressor. That suppressor slows the rounds down actually. Why is it MORE deadly than the POST BAN AR 15?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  8. #808
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post

    And it is a constitutional argument that I can own what other civilians use. anything up to and including what an infantryman is issued as his primary individual weapon is obviously protected by the second amendment.

    so the burden is now on you to show WHY is should not be able to own these weapons that I currently possess.
    Police officers are not civilians. Just yesterday I provided you with no less than three separate dictionary definitions which ALL agreed that they were not civilians. I will look for that post and present it again for you.

    So your argument fails.
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  9. #809
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Police officers are not civilians. Just yesterday I provided you with no less than three separate dictionary definitions which ALL agreed that they were not civilians. I will look for that post and present it again for you.

    So your argument fails.
    Police officers are civilians.
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  10. #810
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Police officers are civilians.
    Sorry. You are wrong.



    but forget what both you and I say about who is a civillian and who is not. Neither of us write dictionaries so lets use one.

    ci·vil·ian /sɪˈvɪlyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-vil-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun 1. a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.
    2. Informal. anyone regarded by members of a profession, interest group, society, etc., as not belonging; nonprofessional; outsider: We need a producer to run the movie studio, not some civilian from the business world.
    3. a person versed in or studying Roman or civil law.
    –adjective 4. of, pertaining to, formed by, or administered by civilians.
    Source(s):
    dictionary.com

    That is about as straight forward as you can get.

    or how about this from The Free Dictionary

    ci·vil·ian (s-vlyn)
    n.
    1. A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military, the police, or a belligerent group.
    2. A person who does not belong to a particular group or engage in a particular activity.
    3. A specialist in Roman or civil law.
    adj.
    Of or relating to civilians or civil life; nonmilitary: civilian clothes; a civilian career.
    That is two for two telling you that you are using the word CIVILLIAN incorrectly.

    Here is a third from Meriam-Webster

    ci·vil·ian noun \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\

    Definition of CIVILIAN

    1
    : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
    2
    a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
    b : outsider 1
    — civilian adjective
    See civilian defined for English-language learners »
    See civilian defined for kids »
    Examples of CIVILIAN

    The bomb injured 12 civilians.
    First Known Use of CIVILIAN

    14th century
    And the Second Amendment has not a damn thing to do with it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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