View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
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    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #761
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the second amendment and the bill of rights GIVE nothing. THEY MERELY RECOGNIZE EXISTING RIGHTS THAT WERE NEVER ABROGATED BY THE DELEGATION OF SPECIFIC POWERS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
    I appreciate this argument, and it is important to understanding the constitution itself. But all you're going to get is a debate on natural rights followed by 'living constitution' and your point will be forgotten by all except those who actually give a crap about the document itself and what it meant.

  2. #762
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    That is.....dependent upon.....any of them actually commenting on it. That isn't a fact, it is conjecture based upon nothing presented by you.
    What is it that you are denying here? That founders made comments on the reasoning behind the second amendment or that I do not understand their comments?

    No chit, the point was that it was not created with singularity and unity as you keep trying to imply. There were multiple views, it has had an evolution in understanding....and again, in spite of your flip-flopping understanding, it has never applied to military weaponry.
    There may have been, but only one view was ratified and codified into law. That is that there exists the pre-existing right to arm one's self and that Constitution limits the govt from infringing that right.

  3. #763
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sorry - but that is NOT what the Second Amendment says.
    The second amendment clearly says that the people have the right to keep and bear arms, and the SCOTUS has confirmed that.

    I would also point out to you that the definition listed as #1 is placed there because it is the most common and most used definition. As you go down the list, they become less commonly used. that means that the #1 definition is the prime one to examine.

    1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done.
    And in this case the conditions are to not infringe the right to keep and bear arms.

  4. #764
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Magazine size has absolutely nothing to do with being semi automatic. A bolt action rifle can have a 30 round magazine as can a shotgun etc.
    Not if the ban is passed on high capacity magazines. I never said every semi-automatic would accept a high capacity mag, I said, "and they usually accept high capacity mags."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #765
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    actually:

    "The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. For instance, Cunningham’s legal dictionary gave as an example of usage: “Servants and labourers shall use bows and arrows on Sundays, &c. and not bear other arms.” See also, e.g., An Act for the trial of Negroes, 1797 Del. Laws ch. XLIII, 6, p. 104, in 1 First Laws of the State of Delaware 102, 104 (J. Cushing ed. 1981 (pt. 1)); see generally State v. Duke, 42 Tex. 455, 458 (1874) (citing decisions of state courts construing “arms”). Although one founding-era thesaurus limited “arms” (as opposed to “weapons”) to “instruments of offence generally made use of in war,” even that source stated that all firearms constituted “arms.” 1 J. Trusler, The Distinction Between Words Esteemed Synonymous in the English Language 37 (1794) (emphasis added)."
    Ah mac, if you really are still trying to argue that the 2nd amendment protects a "right" for you to possess military weapons, then tell me how it is that the Assault Weapon Ban was never challenged in the SC?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #766
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So there's 10 such cases. Good for you. Now it'd need the other end of the equation I placed forth....how many have been sold.

    Reading is fundamental - "Here are just 10 of the U.S. mass shootings that involved high-capacity ammunition magazines."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #767
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    What is it that you are denying here? That founders made comments on the reasoning behind the second amendment or that I do not understand their comments?
    Seriously, you are having this much trouble in understanding what I said? I suggest you again reread the conversation between us because once again you are going off into the weeds as you are prone to.



    There may have been, but only one view was ratified and codified into law.
    No, that is the point, it was a compromise, not one view.
    That is that there exists the pre-existing right to arm one's self and that Constitution limits the govt from infringing that right.
    Oh my...this is getting incomprehensible.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #768
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So you are saying that you can copy and paste the same rules from other nations and it will work perfectly? It doesn't matter that we have a significantly higher population, land mass, inner city poverty ratings, and simple numbers of firearms?

    I didn't know that was how it worked. So why does democracy not work in the Middle East?
    I'll bet you that in 25 years after the ban of high capacity magazines is effect that you will see a reduction in the number massacres.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #769
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I appreciate this argument, and it is important to understanding the constitution itself. But all you're going to get is a debate on natural rights followed by 'living constitution' and your point will be forgotten by all except those who actually give a crap about the document itself and what it meant.
    I don't really give too much thought about people who don't understand the constitution: your point has vast merit though.

  10. #770
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    "Some" founders saying "it" is not the relevant point, the point still is that the courts have determined that the 2nd amendment does not grant a right to a citizen to possess military weaponry. Further, if the founders could see the weaponry available NOW, they would agree with the court findings.

    PS...the 2nd amendment was a compromise between the Congress and the 13 states, there were many competing and conflicting views.


    I think many here cannot accept that the Courts are the only body authorized specifically in the Constitution for its interpretation.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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