View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #751
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Would that mean that we should all have arms like that of the military and train as such? Seems like that means more military training. At least if are going to follow the founding fathers' intent only.

    But the fact is that they DID intend for home front defense as well. That website I provided included quotes from Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, and Washington, and Jefferson on arms for defense against criminals. I would call that intent greater than militia.
    I would say no, and yes.

    It's not likely, now, that we will ever find need for an armed uprising against or own govt. We've established quite a record of resolving differences within the law. So, I say no, we do not necessarily need weapons capable of holding of an Army. However, the possibility does exist, so we do have need buy some time while we appropriate the correct weapons should the need ever materialize.

  2. #752
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Not at all. here is 2



    If the law permits you a firearm - your right has NOT been broken.
    If the law permits you a firearm - your right has NOT been transgressed.
    If the law permits you a firearm - your right has NOT been neglected or disobeyed.

    And lets consider the complete definition please. Do not focus on a single tree when the entire forest is before you. Unless of course the rest of the forest causes that single tree to appear otherwise than what you want it to be.
    If the law limits the effectiveness of your weapon, you right has been broken and transgressed. By your reasoning, allowing the equipping of butter knives sufficiently fulfills the second amendment.

  3. #753
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    If the law limits the effectiveness of your weapon, you right has been broken and transgressed. By your reasoning, allowing the equipping of butter knives sufficiently fulfills the second amendment.
    Sorry - but that is NOT what the Second Amendment says.

    I would also point out to you that the definition listed as #1 is placed there because it is the most common and most used definition. As you go down the list, they become less commonly used. that means that the #1 definition is the prime one to examine.

    1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done.
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  4. #754
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Actually, all of them that made any statement concerning it were clearly stating that it is an armed populace that keeps their govt in check. Indisputable fact.
    That is.....dependent upon.....any of them actually commenting on it. That isn't a fact, it is conjecture based upon nothing presented by you.



    And the right to bear arms was ratified.
    No chit, the point was that it was not created with singularity and unity as you keep trying to imply. There were multiple views, it has had an evolution in understanding....and again, in spite of your flip-flopping understanding, it has never applied to military weaponry.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #755
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If you tell me "what I am saying" at least have the decency to quote it. But you and i both know that is NOT what I am saying - that is your spin on my views designed to give you a standard talking point to reply to with your own standard talking point.

    Your life, my life, a cops life - nobody is saying one is higher. My point was clear. My point was unambiguous. My point was unmistakable. here it is again in case you were confused the first several times:

    YOU ARE NOT A COP AND YOU DON'T DO THEIR JOB. BECAUSE OF THAT YOU DO NOT NEED THE TOOLS THEY NEED.

    Clear on that now?

    Flush all the other crap.
    the only time a cop needs the weapon is when he is facing an imminent threat of severe bodily harm or death and that is the same for other civilians. what you are trying to say (and you are wrong) is that cops face more SERIOUS threats than other civilians. That is not true. and as I have noted, cops or almost never the target of unprovoked attacks like convenience store owners etc are. When cops are in a gun fight with mopes the cops usually know that they are going into a dangerous situation. When you are walking down the street or sitting in a movie theater or shopping in a mall you are not expecting a criminal attack. Same when you are sleeping in your bed.

    that is why non LEOs usually are facing more dire circumstances than cops. Its because the criminals almost always initiate the deployment of a weapon FIRST against a civilian. Not so with cops who often do felony search warrants or arrest warrants on unsuspecting criminals or at least get a dispatch call of a problem

    so your claim is completely wrong, counter to real life experience and is contrary to fact

  6. #756
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    So police officers are a class of prestige above non-cops and you want to see people become youtube sensations instead of defending themselves. Im not a cop and I have been shot at once and had a someone brandish a gun on me twice. So your personal experience really doesn't count for everyone's. (thankfully I didn't need a gun to get out of the situation in all these cases but that's not the point.)

    some people think government employees are a more important class of civilians over those of us who pay their salaries. The fact is crime victims almost never initiate armed violence against criminals while police officers often do. thus citizens who are not LEOs ought to have even better weaponry than the police who have the advantage of surprise and backups

  7. #757
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    We are all already members of militias. It is automatic.
    Where is this stated that applies to you and me?
    Why was I drafted and sworn into a militia if I was already a member?
    I hadn't done anythig wrong so by what authority did they not allow me to have a gun?

  8. #758
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again the argument was that citizens have the right to own weaponry that govt entities (militias, military, police) possess.

    This is a total falsehood, the 2nd Amendment does not give you this right as the courts have shown (my citations on the previous page bear this out).

    the second amendment and the bill of rights GIVE nothing. THEY MERELY RECOGNIZE EXISTING RIGHTS THAT WERE NEVER ABROGATED BY THE DELEGATION OF SPECIFIC POWERS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    In Heller the majority rejected the view that the term "to bear arms" implies only the military use of arms:
    Before addressing the verbs “keep” and “bear,” we interpret their object: “Arms.” The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity.

    District of Columbia v. Heller - 07-290 (2008) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center
    actually:

    "The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. For instance, Cunningham’s legal dictionary gave as an example of usage: “Servants and labourers shall use bows and arrows on Sundays, &c. and not bear other arms.” See also, e.g., An Act for the trial of Negroes, 1797 Del. Laws ch. XLIII, 6, p. 104, in 1 First Laws of the State of Delaware 102, 104 (J. Cushing ed. 1981 (pt. 1)); see generally State v. Duke, 42 Tex. 455, 458 (1874) (citing decisions of state courts construing “arms”). Although one founding-era thesaurus limited “arms” (as opposed to “weapons”) to “instruments of offence generally made use of in war,” even that source stated that all firearms constituted “arms.” 1 J. Trusler, The Distinction Between Words Esteemed Synonymous in the English Language 37 (1794) (emphasis added)."

  10. #760
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the second amendment and the bill of rights GIVE nothing. THEY MERELY RECOGNIZE EXISTING RIGHTS THAT WERE NEVER ABROGATED BY THE DELEGATION OF SPECIFIC POWERS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
    Uh, you are arguing over verbiage, not the content. The content is that you do not have an existing right, protected by the govt, to possess military weaponry.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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