View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #661
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what has biden's track record been for 40 years?
    Im talking about this: "IN reality, Obumble, Biden and their toadies were planning on trying to ban guns all along once Obumble won the election"

    Obama and Biden made no statements about gun control during the electoral campaigns. What is your source or information that Biden and Obama really had some plan before this tragedy with the issue of gun control?


  2. #662
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Strange reasoning.....but maybe not, from a conservative...
    IMO, its far better to have the police armed than every citizen....
    You equate "citizens" with highly reponsible national leaders ??
    Yes, Russia....they could have, but never did....nor did we....
    But, of course, many citizens do need added protection...but not to the extent of making a war out of this "personal security".
    Can the police always be there immediately when a citizen needs their protection? In Tucson, it was reported it took police 20 minutes to arrive. I haven't seen response times for other mass shooting, but from the number of victims at each, I would say way too slow.

    Does our current legal system adequately reform offenders? I would say not. In fact, reform institutions appear more to have become trade schools for criminals than acting to reform or discourage crime.

    Can armed individuals prevent all crime? No. Can they prevent a large amount of crime? History would tend to tell us that the answer is Yes.

    What do you use as the basis that "National leaders" are "highly responsible"? If they are so responsible, when was the last time mankind had a single day where there were not wars somewhere on the planet? We have not destroyed ourselves with a nuclear Holocaust yet, so it could be argued that those currently possessing nukes have at least, so far, acted somewhat responsibly on that issue.

    You seem to be equating large numbers of personal weapons with "making war out of this "personal security"". Have the majority, or even a significant percentage of them been involved in violent crimes? Even if they believe in the possibility of a revolution, have a significant percentage of them risen up and attacked the citizenry or government? Should the many be punished and have their rights limited or taken away because of the actions of the few? Should we apply that kind of punishment philosophy to all things, or only guns?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  3. #663
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Oh but I think that is exactly the issue. You are not a cop. To pretend that the standards and equipment needs that apply to them as professional police officers apply to civilians is simply not a solid argument.

    That is a difference and I suspect most people recognize that difference. You are NOT fighting criminals the way police are. You are NOT in the same environment they are as officers performing their duties.

    And I think this is what divides so many people on this issue.

    I have said this many times: I support the right of a person and the need of a person to have a firearm for personal defense, home defense, business defense, hunting, target shooting, competition use, and other such uses. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Americans do as well. Outside of the most extreme anti-gun people, I really see no movement to change this.

    I do not support people having armories. I do not support people having military weapons that have large capacity magazines. I do not support people having automatic weapons.

    HONEST QUESTION FOR YOU TURTLE: much of this then comes down to the idea that somehow someday you are going to need your armory or your weapons to do battle with the police and armed forces of the nation in some sort of armed resistance to tyranny. And that is why you want all this stuff to put you on the same level with the police and military.

    If you want to believe that, it is your right to believe that. I think it borders on serious mental delusion that smacks of paranoia. But that is just my opinion.

    The point is that as long as that is the ace card the gun lobby and some of its supporter hold up their sleeve, there will be no bridging the gulf between those who support common sense gun policies and the more strident and militant gun forces.

    And yes, I taught history and government for 33 years and know all about how the USA got started and some of the motives for the Founders. Yes - I know them and accept them. And it does not change my opinion on this one iota jot or tittle.
    you confuse legal status with the situation that confronts people

    what you are saying is that cops deserve better stuff than other citizens because you value the lives of those who serve the state higher than those who pay the salaries of those living off the public dime

    and automatic weapons are not at issue in the current emotogasm that your party is engaged in

    when cops confront criminals they usually have backup, its often on terms the cops have created and they have radios to call for help. They have body armor. when a citizen who is not an LEO confronts a criminal its almost always due to the criminal having the initiative, That suggests non LEOs should have greater firepower than cops who have teams and squads and backup

    but we get your drift, you think that honest people cannot be trusted with the same guns cops have because again-you trust government over others

  4. #664
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why do we have nukes? Deterent.

    Why do citizen have arms? Deterent

    /story

    I think if the SHTF, my suggestion would be to kill those who advocated the government start a war on its own citizens. take out the soft targets, the politicians and those who egged them on. that is the best way to stop tyranny

  5. #665
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Im talking about this: "IN reality, Obumble, Biden and their toadies were planning on trying to ban guns all along once Obumble won the election"

    Obama and Biden made no statements about gun control during the electoral campaigns. What is your source or information that Biden and Obama really had some plan before this tragedy with the issue of gun control?
    you voted for Biden and you have no clue about his track record on guns all the years he has been in office?

  6. #666
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you voted for Biden and you have no clue about his track record on guns all the years he has been in office?
    No i do he's been in favor of more strict gun controls. But he and Obama have not mentioned anything about gun control before this but if you have a source or information that states that they had a secret plan all along please share it.


  7. #667
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No i do he's been in favor of more strict gun controls. But he and Obama have not mentioned anything about gun control before this but if you have a source or information that states that they had a secret plan all along please share it.
    someone spends 36 years trying to ban guns and they don't talk about it before a tough election

    wow gullible much?

  8. #668
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Oh but I think that is exactly the issue. You are not a cop. To pretend that the standards and equipment needs that apply to them as professional police officers apply to civilians is simply not a solid argument.

    That is a difference and I suspect most people recognize that difference. You are NOT fighting criminals the way police are. You are NOT in the same environment they are as officers performing their duties.

    And I think this is what divides so many people on this issue.

    I have said this many times: I support the right of a person and the need of a person to have a firearm for personal defense, home defense, business defense, hunting, target shooting, competition use, and other such uses. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Americans do as well. Outside of the most extreme anti-gun people, I really see no movement to change this.

    I do not support people having armories. I do not support people having military weapons that have large capacity magazines. I do not support people having automatic weapons.

    HONEST QUESTION FOR YOU TURTLE: much of this then comes down to the idea that somehow someday you are going to need your armory or your weapons to do battle with the police and armed forces of the nation in some sort of armed resistance to tyranny. And that is why you want all this stuff to put you on the same level with the police and military.

    If you want to believe that, it is your right to believe that. I think it borders on serious mental delusion that smacks of paranoia. But that is just my opinion.

    The point is that as long as that is the ace card the gun lobby and some of its supporter hold up their sleeve, there will be no bridging the gulf between those who support common sense gun policies and the more strident and militant gun forces.

    And yes, I taught history and government for 33 years and know all about how the USA got started and some of the motives for the Founders. Yes - I know them and accept them. And it does not change my opinion on this one iota jot or tittle.
    What threat do police officers encounter that the general public does not? I am not talking about SWAT teams or snipers, but simply the normal, officer on the beat's everyday primary carry handgun. The typical service weapon is now a medium to large frame semi-automatic pistol in 9mm to .45 ACP caliber. I personally prefer a smaller caliber (.380), for less recoil, less likelyhood of penetration through the target and more control of a second shot (or two).

    What is the Best Pistol for Police Officers?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #669
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    someone spends 36 years trying to ban guns and they don't talk about it before a tough election

    wow gullible much?
    Lets see here takes the VP position. Doesnt say anything first 4 years. Then a massacre happens in school then does. Maybe guns werent his main issue and really didnt care until a huge massacre like this happens.


  10. #670
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you for the very kind and supportive words.

    I suspect that Turtle does indeed have a great deal of knowledge and skill in both the use of weapons as well as in the exercise of proper judgment about when to use them. I do not question or doubt this for a moment. Having said that, we do not make policy or law for the individual who may well be the exception to the rule. …
    The vast majority of gun owners are not criminals, and the vast majority of guns owned by common citizens are never used to commit crimes. Surely a criminal who uses a firearm to commit a violent crime is at least as much an exception as someone like Turtledude is. And you advocate useless and severe restrictions on an explicitly-affirmed Constitutional right for all Americans, based on the actions of a few exceptions. This is inconsistent with your statement that “…we do not make policy or law for the individual who may well be the exception to the rule.”
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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