View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
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    102 50.00%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #371
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    In a related Weekly Standard article, as a commentary on the MJ article:
    (point being- if there's an armed civilian, it's not nearly as likely to be a mass shooting)
    And now we can add last weeks Clakamus County OR mall shooting where an armed man is reported to have stopped it from becoming a massacre. Oh wait, only two died there if I remember right.

    Yep, amazing how when only look at the ones that didn't get stopped that you end up with zero being the number stopped by a gun owner. Would that be a biased study and statistics? I guess only if you are not on an anti-gun kick.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  2. #372
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    We have a bigger population. More people... more shootings. Makes sense when you think about it. Is that the problem... the thinking?
    Try looking up the term per capita. We have more gun homicides per capita than do other rich countries with less guns.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #373
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    In a related Weekly Standard article, as a commentary on the MJ article:
    (point being- if there's an armed civilian, it's not nearly as likely to be a mass shooting)
    5 cases against 62 does not make A case, and those five only met one of the criteria used in the Mother Earth study.

    "There is no evidence indicating that arming Americans further will help prevent mass shootings or reduce the carnage, says Dr. Stephen Hargarten, a leading expert on emergency medicine and gun violence at the Medical College of Wisconsin. To the contrary, there appears to be a relationship between the proliferation of firearms and a rise in mass shootings: By our count, there have been two per year on average since 1982. Yet 25 of the 62 cases we examined have occurred since 2006. This year alone there have already been seven mass shootings—and a record number of casualties, with more than 140 people injured and killed.

    Armed civilians attempting to intervene are actually more likely to increase the bloodshed, says Hargarten, "given that civilian shooters are less likely to hit their targets than police in these circumstances." A chaotic scene in August at the Empire State Building put this starkly into perspective when New York City police officers confronting a gunman wounded nine innocent bystanders."

    More Guns, More Mass Shootings
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #374
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    killers target areas where gun possession is banned

    they don't target areas where people are packing guns

    You have provided zero evidence that any significant number of the 62 mass shootings in the last 30 years were in places where guns were not allowed.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #375
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you believe I will continue to play your silly game?
    When one quits the game, one does not return periodically to ring the bell reminding the world that they are no longer here.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  6. #376
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Oh really? What was the definition that we agreed to? I really don't remember EVER agreeing with you.
    Herre it is for you and from you post 303 and many many many after that in which the participants agreed to use that definition

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-co...-194-a-31.html

    You provided the definition.
    You agreed to its use.

    Of course, after you came to realize that the only part that actually applied in the historical being discussed was the part you provided labeled as OBSOLETE, you tried to back pedal away from it since it did not conform to the modern NRA party line that you endorse.

    But that changes nothing. It still came from you and was agreed upon my you, Federalist, myself and others as the one to use. It was Federalist who challenged me to show that the OBSOLETE definition was applicable in that time period and I then did that. And that seemed to make some folks very unhappy.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-21-12 at 08:27 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #377
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Herre it is for you and from you post 303 and many many many after that in which the participants agreed to use that definition

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-co...-194-a-31.html

    You provided the definition.
    You agreed to its use.

    Of course, after you came to realize that the only part that actually applied in the historical being discussed was the part you provided labeled as OBSOLETE, you tried to back pedal away from it since it did not conform to the modern NRA party line that you endorse.

    But that changes nothing. It still came from you and was agreed upon my you, Federalist, myself and others as the one to use. It was Federalist who challenged me to show that the OBSOLETE definition was applicable in that time period and I then did that. And that seemed to make some folks very unhappy.
    Just because you CHOOSE to apply one definition to the word "infringe" and completely ignore the context in which the word is used does not mean you are correct in your interpretation. IMO, to infringe upon someone's rights means to restrict or to otherwise create hardship (whether that be financial or whatever) for citizens to be able to practice their rights.

    THAT is what infringe would mean in this context. Now, if you continue to act anal retentive about the definition of the word (which we all know is your way of sidetracking the discussion), then I am not going to address your comments. If you want to have a real conversation about the issue at hand, that would be very nice.

  8. #378
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    Re: Gun Control

    Some nut where I live just stabbed his wife to death with an ice pick, he didn't have a gun I guess.

  9. #379
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Armed civilians attempting to intervene are actually more likely to increase the bloodshed, says Hargarten, "given that civilian shooters are less likely to hit their targets than police in these circumstances." A chaotic scene in August at the Empire State Building put this starkly into perspective when New York City police officers confronting a gunman wounded nine innocent bystanders."
    All the more reason we should increase gun training. Gun safety, usage and laws should be a regular part of the the K-12 Curriculum.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  10. #380
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Just because you CHOOSE to apply one definition to the word "infringe" and completely ignore the context in which the word is used does not mean you are correct in your interpretation.
    You gave us a definition which had
    1- modern meanings of the word INFRINGED, and
    2- the meaning of the word INFRINGED which was labeled as OBSOLETE

    The modern definition applies to this period of time. The obsolete definition applies to the time period of the Second Amendments writing.

    This is NOT about my interpretation. It is about the definition that you provided for us and the meaning of the term at the time the Amendment was written.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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