View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
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    102 50.00%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #321
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I could also have said that the tri-cornerd hat was quite the rage when some people believed that quaint relic of ancient history.
    I am curious. Why do you do this when you are clearly wrong? You could have just said, "You are right MisterVeritis, the Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. We have not kept pace."

    Do you have any evidence the Framers intended the citizenry to be armed with only obsolete, ineffective weapons?

  2. #322
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I am curious. Why do you do this when you are clearly wrong? You could have just said, "You are right MisterVeritis, the Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. We have not kept pace."

    Do you have any evidence the Framers intended the citizenry to be armed with only obsolete, ineffective weapons?
    Irrelevant and without any standing in this debate.

    My evidence is the Second Amendment and what the words meant at the time of that era. What some individual may have believed is a nice anecdote of history but is irrelevant next to the Second Amendment.

    But I think you should trumpet this stance to the high heavens and say it loud and say it proud as often as possible before the American people. I strongly and enthusiastically support your efforts to get that message out as the reason we should no nothing on this issue.
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  3. #323
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    Re: Gun Control

    Earlier I wrote, "I am curious. Why do you do this when you are clearly wrong? You could have just said, "You are right MisterVeritis, the Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. We have not kept pace."

    Do you have any evidence the Framers intended the citizenry to be armed with only obsolete, ineffective weapons?"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Irrelevant and without any standing in this debate.

    My evidence is the Second Amendment and what the words meant at the time of that era. What some individual may have believed is a nice anecdote of history but is irrelevant next to the Second Amendment.

    But I think you should trumpet this stance to the high heavens and say it loud and say it proud as often as possible before the American people. I strongly and enthusiastically support your efforts to get that message out as the reason we should no nothing on this issue.
    You should have said you had nothing and moved on.

    Are you arguing that the Framers intended that citizens be armed with obsolete weapons Haymarket? Are you really?

    Can you further expound on why you believe the Framers words mean anything other than what they wrote? If that is your interpretation are there other parts of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that you believe should be reframed away from what they wrote and more in line with your interpretation?

  4. #324
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And what were the total homicides with guns in 2010 in the UK? In 2009, it was 39 total for the year! No one has suggested that you must always be 'safe', we are just talking about reducing 10,000 homicides each year with guns.

    So unless you gun rights people can get something implemented to reduce the numbers, the people and their representatives will do what we think will help reduce the numbers.

    What you guys got going?
    Are you suggesting the numbers were comparable BEFORE the ban?

    Nah...all it proves is that like your idiotic efforts, it doesn't stop mass killings. People find a way. Whether its Dunblane Scotland or China.

  5. #325
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Earlier I wrote, "I am curious. Why do you do this when you are clearly wrong? You could have just said, "You are right MisterVeritis, the Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. We have not kept pace."

    Do you have any evidence the Framers intended the citizenry to be armed with only obsolete, ineffective weapons?"



    You should have said you had nothing and moved on.

    Are you arguing that the Framers intended that citizens be armed with obsolete weapons Haymarket? Are you really?

    Can you further expound on why you believe the Framers words mean anything other than what they wrote? If that is your interpretation are there other parts of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that you believe should be reframed away from what they wrote and more in line with your interpretation?
    How does you repeating the same nonsense provide substance to the same nonsense?

    You asked your question. I answered it. What about that do you not comprehend?

    My position is clear and unmistakable: The Second Amendment says what it says and no more and no less. For you or anybody else to pretend to tell me or anyone else what some individuals may have believed about their personal intent is irrelevant compared to the actual language which they gave us. They would not be the first people who wrote language which later came back to bite them in the ass because they failed to write it the way they thought they intended to.

    Your problem is NOT with me. Your problem is with the language of the Second Amendment and it DOES NOT say what you want it to say.
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  6. #326
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How does you repeating the same nonsense provide substance to the same nonsense?

    You asked your question. I answered it. What about that do you not comprehend?

    My position is clear and unmistakable: The Second Amendment says what it says and no more and no less.
    Except that is not what you said. Nor is it what you implied. Your opinion is not found in any of the debates or arguments about the Bill of Rights in the states nor in any of the collected papers of any of the participants.

    Are you of the opinion that the Framers who had just defeated a nation that had tyrannized them with a standing army would wish to see their antidote to tyranny be less capably armed than the troops that tyrannized them?

    If so can you show me any evidence?

    For you or anybody else to pretend to tell me or anyone else what some individuals may have believed about their personal intent is irrelevant compared to the actual language which they gave us. They would not be the first people who wrote language which later came back to bite them in the ass because they failed to write it the way they thought they intended to.
    Blather. Admit that you do not know what you are talking about. And then move on.

    Your problem is NOT with me. Your problem is with the language of the Second Amendment and it DOES NOT say what you want it to say.
    No. It is with you and all others who facilitate tyranny as long as it comes a little bit at a time.

  7. #327
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Are you suggesting the numbers were comparable BEFORE the ban?

    Nah...all it proves is that like your idiotic efforts, it doesn't stop mass killings. People find a way. Whether its Dunblane Scotland or China.
    They reduced the number of intentional homicides with firearms, yes! They also reduced the number of mass killings with fireams.

    Like I said, you guys get your own plans implemented to reduce the numbers or we will implement our own plans.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #328
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They reduced the number of intentional homicides with firearms, yes! They also reduced the number of mass killings with fireams.

    Like I said, you guys get your own plans implemented to reduce the numbers or we will implement our own plans.
    No no...that's pretty much a chicken **** dodge. Not at all the question that was asked so lets try again and see if you can be honest this time. ARE you suggesting the numbers were comparable before the ban? Its a simple question. You made it...you get to defend it. Were the murder rates in the UK comparable to the US pre ban?

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No no...that's pretty much a chicken **** dodge. Not at all the question that was asked so lets try again and see if you can be honest this time. ARE you suggesting the numbers were comparable before the ban? Its a simple question. You made it...you get to defend it. Were the murder rates in the UK comparable to the US pre ban?

    I am suggesting what actually happened, they decided the numbers were unacceptable so they acted to lower them. And I'm not suggesting here that we go the same route at this time. I think our society is probably a couple hundred years of evolution behind the UK in banning all guns.

    Most reasonable gun owners like myself are going to support the banning of guns and mags that are designed primarily for large kills between reloads, along with all the other measures like closing the private sales loophole, hopefully further mental background checks, and of course all the plans the gun clubs get passed to help reduce the numbers.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #330
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Except that is not what you said. Nor is it what you implied.
    Implications are supplied by your own mind. What is it you believe that I said that you dispute?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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