View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
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    102 50.00%
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    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #311
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Shows that even with 'bans' you can never be 'safe', and that even on an island, people find a way to access weapons and kill people.

    Oh...wait...I REMEMBER now...You LIKE shotguns...
    The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 1996 Dunblane massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history.

    And what were the total homicides with guns in 2010 in the UK? In 2009, it was 39 total for the year! No one has suggested that you must always be 'safe', we are just talking about reducing 10,000 homicides each year with guns.

    So unless you gun rights people can get something implemented to reduce the numbers, the people and their representatives will do what we think will help reduce the numbers.

    What you guys got going?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #312
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Actually, the original intent of the 2nd amendment was not for personal rights.
    Actually it was. The Framers believed that the citizenry armed held the ultimate sovereign power.

    It was written before the advent of a standing army,
    This is not true. An armed citizenry was the antidote to a standing army. The rebellious colonists had been oppressed by standing armies. To say that the right to keep and bear arms was written before standing armies turns history on its head.

    when every able-bodied man (okay, let's be honest, every able-bodied white land-owning man) was expected to maintain a firearm and come forward in times of crisis to protect their homes, towns and nation. Every man was, by definition, part of the militia and had to provide their own weapons.
    See my first and second statements above. In the US sovereignty rests in the citizens. In other places it rests in the state.

    That was the purpose of the 2nd amendment.
    The purpose was to provide a powerful antidote to tyranny. A state will find it exceptionally difficult to subjugate a free, armed people. Of course the Framers did not foresee the modern Democratic party and the massive administrative state. Who can avoid the tyranny of the EPA and now Obamacare?

    However, times change and today, we have a standing military and an active police force, two things not forseen by the founding fathers.
    Wrong again. An armed citizenry is the antidote to the standing army. Far from being something they did not see it was a response to something they had seen and had been tyrannized by.

    The modern-day Supreme Court's sole job is to interpret the Constitution in light of modern events, yet the farther we get from the days of the founding fathers, the less impact the founding documents can have on modern life because they just had no clue about the modern world. Given a modern army and police force, it's unlikely that the founding fathers would have taken the positions they did with the 2nd amendment.
    And here is the real goal. If you can just convince us that the Constitution should be bent to the popular will of a majority without going through the effort of amending the Constitution itself then Progressivism-socialism-liberalism will have won a very great victory. Then you can ride roughshod over the liberty of the people and the statist will be in the position to choose what rights the people may exercise.

    I think we can make some good, logical reasons for personal gun ownership, but this mindless clinging to the 2nd amendment really is pretty pathetic.
    It is regrettable that you made such a mess of your arguments. All of them are wrong. All of them do damage to our history.

  3. #313
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Uhh no i dont think think anyone should have to turn their guns in...
    I appreciate you walking back your comment on "strictness."

  4. #314
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Just wondering, do you think that those 26 people who died in CT had their liberties taken away? Liberty is a priority, everybody should have the liberty to live, those 26 didn't? Thoughts on that?
    No. They had their lives taken from them.

    They and the adults responsible for their care and safety were disarmed by politicians who created gun free zones. The politicians who vote for a gun free zone and the politicians who vote to disarm the citizens are culpable and should be punished. They are second in line after the murderer when blame is placed.

    Citizens who enable the politicians to disarm the citizens are third in line for blame.

  5. #315
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I have always been against guns, not to the extent of repealing the 2nd amendment, but to limiting it. Times have clearly changed , they did not have assault rifles back then. It was common for people to have guns because we relied on militias.
    This does violence to history. The Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. WE have not kept pace.

    There are bolt action weapons. They require that each bullet be loaded before firing with a maximum capacity of one bullet.
    There are semiautomatic weapons. They can be loaded on Sunday and fired all week long. One trigger pull means one round down range.
    There are automatic weapons. They can be loaded on Sunday and have options including semiautomatic, short (usually three round) burst and automatic. For semiautomatic one trigger pull causes on round to go down range. For short burst a trigger pull causes three rounds to go down range. For automatic as long as the trigger is pulled rounds will follow one after another until the rounds are expended.

    "Assault" weapons are a political definition intended to dupe you into disarming because some weapons look frightening.

    I am all for limiting access to guns myself. No politician should have access to guns or armed bodyguards. There. That is a reasonable first step to our disarmament.

  6. #316
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    This does violence to history. The Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. WE have not kept pace.


    If the right wing on guns truly believes that the American people will accept technology as the only limit on what guns are acceptable, or this meme that people need the same weapons as the military since the day of The Great Right Wing Revolution Where We Fight From Street To Street will someday arrive, they have a huge and ugly awakening ahead of them.
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  7. #317
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If the right wing on guns truly believes that the American people will accept technology as the only limit on what guns are acceptable, or this meme that people need the same weapons as the military since the day of The Great Right Wing Revolution Where We Fight From Street To Street will someday arrive, they have a huge and ugly awakening ahead of them.
    This is where you are forced to go when you have to back away from an incorrect statement.

    You could have just said, "You are right MisterVeritis, the Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. We have not kept pace. "

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But once you take away the guns and the knives and the bomb-making chemicals in everyone's homes and cars, etc., you're still left with the PEOPLE! Why not stop worrying about all the things that can cause damage and deal with the actual problem?
    Because then they would have to realize that their argument works for everything.

  9. #319
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If the right wing on guns truly believes that the American people will accept technology as the only limit on what guns are acceptable, or this meme that people need the same weapons as the military since the day of The Great Right Wing Revolution Where We Fight From Street To Street will someday arrive, they have a huge and ugly awakening ahead of them.
    Or those who believe that a revolution is not brewing and not only possible, but becoming more and more likely will have even a bigger surprise, if or when it comes.

    With the knowledge to build better weapons, all I need are the tools, why would I want the outdated old technology that we currently give our military? What limit is there on people to acquire the knowledge and tools needed? Their bank account is the only limit. Most of military's crap is old and was built by the lowest bidder to begin with.

    How well has all the drones, tanks and aircraft done against the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan? That is only a few thousand insurgents, there are over 100 million gun owners in America. And a lot of them are military, prior military, law enforcement and prior law enforcement.

    The best way for neither side to get a "surprise" is not push the issue in the first place.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  10. #320
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    This is where you are forced to go when you have to back away from an incorrect statement.

    You could have just said, "You are right MisterVeritis, the Second Amendment was intended to arm the citizenry with the same weapons the infantry carried. We have not kept pace. "
    I could also have said that the tri-cornerd hat was quite the rage when some people believed that quaint relic of ancient history.
    __________________________________________________ _
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